One of the best resources I've found on dealing with roosters

[Rachel TW]

As someone who actually trains roosters, that's just not true. I have many roosters who have never gone back to their old behavior.

Much of Pavlov has been discredited - that's not an appropriate model to use for understanding rooster behavior.

"mean" and "nice" describe the behavior in a way that everyone understands. it is same for "aggressive" and "docile".


Please, tell us about it. All the accounts I have seen make me think the best-possible outcome is that the caretakers learn to avoid certain triggers and requires lifelong training. If you know how to permanently change a rooster, please tell us about it. You won't believe me, but I am a huge rooster advocate in my neighborhood and I have taken my rooster to the park and other social places to show people how "nice" a nice rooster can be.

I would say that "good" and "bad" also describes the way people are talking on this forum. Many are using the word "bad," and the entire concept that an aggressive rooster can never change his behavior suggests he is born "bad" and is therefore irredeemable, and unworthy of empathy. Because if he can't change, why even try to understand his point of view?

I do believe you and I thank you for responding with curiosity.

It will take me a bit to craft this response, but first could you help me understand your position better? Do you believe that all chickens are only capable of responding to stimuli through positive and negative reinforcement, and aren't capable of anything else? Or do you think they're capable of more social behavior, like bonding with you? Could you have a sort of friendship with a chicken? Or do you think they're just automatons?

I want to make sure my response is targeted toward your way of thinking, otherwise it won't mean anything to you.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Every single aggressive rooster I've ever encountered was human imprinted, and every broody raised rooster I've had has been a perfect gentleman

I’ve had both roosters who were “imprinted” and ones that were raised completely hands-off, and there were a mix of personalities in each group. I’ve had many docile hand-raised roosters, and several ones raised hands-off who were aggressive.

Nature dealt chickens a bad hand for domestication. Chicken genetics are skewed against roosters They are programed to be aggressive, loud and wild and we never really tried to fix that until this last 100 years. Heck we exploited it. Also unfortunately, they are set up percentage wise to be the standard mammalian 50/50.

I’ve heard speculations that roosters are more aggressive due to being bred to be hormonal all year round. This breeding isn’t intentional; it’s a side affect of breeding hens to be hormonal all year round so they lay an unnaturally high number of eggs. This could be part of the reason gamefowl, who lay a lot less eggs, tend to have less human aggressive roosters.

 

[SarahGfa]

I would say that "good" and "bad" also describes the way people are talking on this forum. Many are using the word "bad," and the entire concept that an aggressive rooster can never change his behavior suggests he is born "bad" and is therefore irredeemable, and unworthy of empathy. Because if he can't change, why even try to understand his point of view?

No just the opposite. I empathize with roosters who feel threatened and attack me. I don't blame him for being that way and IMO he is acting on instinct, not spite.

That's why IMO it is impossible to change an aggressive rooster. People can learn to "manage" the behavior, but without constant "management" the rooster reverts to instinct.

I do believe you and I thank you for responding with curiosity.

It will take me a bit to craft this response, but first could you help me understand your position better? Do you believe that all chickens are only capable of responding to stimuli through positive and negative reinforcement, and aren't capable of anything else? Or do you think they're capable of more social behavior, like bonding with you? Could you have a sort of friendship with a chicken? Or do you think they're just automatons?

I want to make sure my response is targeted toward your way of thinking, otherwise it won't mean anything to you.

Can you just describe what you did, and what happened? I'm not trying to make friends with my chickens, just want to let them be themselves as long as no one gets hurt.

 

[Bo52tx]

My rooster had an attitude problem, my Tom turkey corrected it. Just another way of handling it.

 

[Wacochicks]

Understanding Roosters

The above web page has been one of the best resources I've ever had on how to manage a rooster. The problem I found with most of the online forms whether it be backyard chickens or another one is that so often the advice on dealing with the natural aggression of a rooster tends to land of Grog the caveman.

I'm sure you know what I mean- someone will ask on a forum what to do with their adolescent rooster who's being aggressive. Unfortunately most of the so-called advice, devolves into caveman speak. Like, you got to show them your boss and rough them up if they come for you. The latter is such crappy advice cuz all it does is escalate the situation and before you know it this person who has followed that poorly considered advice is now asking about where they can rehome their rooster or dispatch it- read kill the rooster.

I'm definitely a guy guy- I'm a flight instructor and pilot for over 24 years and even I knew when I read such advice about 'showing them who's boss' that was just going to be a recipe for failure.

Absolutely love my rooster and he was definitely an accident he was supposed to be a hen. Having never had a rooster before there was a big learning curve and the preponderance of bad advice on many of the online chicken forums definitely wasn't resonating with me.

The odd thing about some of the advice is it always sounded like some advisors were proud of getting rough with a rooster which is a creature great many times smaller than you. It always struck me as some miscreant adult being proud that they could knock out a 5 year old child with a punch? I mean geez in both cases you're so many times stronger and larger what do you think your rate of success is going to be? So suffice it to say that I decided to put away Notions of grunting and responding to the name of Grog to prove myself over a rooster.?!?

The above shared link is one of a couple of web resources that I found which I found very very helpful and forging a reasonable and respectful relationship with my rooster.

Anyway hope some others find it helpful that may not be aware of the link.

I keep my roosters. Amazing personalities. I lost one of my favorite one to a predator, when he defended the hens. That's what they do. Even seen them take on hawks. They have lot of important jobs in the life of the coop. Have a video of my Australorp teaching a baby chick how to eat. Picked up food, placed his head down on the ground, dropped the food and then called the little ones. Don't sell them short. Liked your link too.

 

[Rachel TW]

No just the opposite. I empathize with roosters who feel threatened and attack me. I don't blame him for being that way and IMO he is acting on instinct, not spite.

That's why IMO it is impossible to change an aggressive rooster. People can learn to "manage" the behavior, but without constant "management" the rooster reverts to instinct.


Can you just describe what you did, and what happened? I'm not trying to make friends with my chickens, just want to let them be themselves as long as no one gets hurt.

I definitely disagree with you there - saying it's instinct doesn't show him empathy at all, in my opinion. Roosters attack for many different reasons. One of the main ones is they're treating you as a rival - and that's what the whole training is about, changing that relationship, not being a rival anymore. Redefining the relationship as a partnership. Other reasons they attack could be fear, insecurity, excitement, surprise, unrelated stress, on and on.

All I do is follow the methods the Featherbrain laid out in the article linked and they work like magic - you essentially just need to learn positive dog training methods. If you want to learn as quickly as possible, follow Zac George - watch his YouTube videos, read his book, apply it to roosters. It will take time - dog training is a skill, but roosters are worth it. In general, I've found that working with a rooster a couple times a day for even just a couple of weeks can completely transform him. Of course, some will learn faster, some slower - just like dogs, but it's never taken me longer than a few weeks of work with my boys. The more experience you get, the faster you can do it, as with all things.

Some will slide back, just like dogs, but when they do slide back, it's much easier to retrain them. Others won't slide back at all. They're all individuals with unique personalities. But I never assume the worst if one slides back (and by slide back, I typically mean a rooster tries to spur me once after not having done it for a really long time). I show him empathy, try to figure out the reason why he's behaving that way, spend about 5 minutes working with him, and then we're good. Honestly, it never feels like a big deal. Sometimes a child behaves really well for a long period of time and then "slides back" - either physically or verbally behaving in a way you don't like. You just deal with it and move on, but it doesn't mean that you're just "managing" a child who is always "mean" at heart and inherently incapable of truly changing his behavior.

I'll be honest here - If you are unwilling to consider that you can change your relationship with your rooster, then I don't see how you could follow through with the training. You essentially need to take the time and the effort to learn positive methods dog training, and just like with dogs, you have to work with their personalities. When one approach doesn't work, you need to change it a bit, as you would with dogs. But if you are convinced it's not going to work, I don't know why you would bother putting the time in to do it.

I don't want to discourage you or anybody else - it really isn't hard if you're committed. But you have to be willing to deal with any obstacles that come up, not just say, "I knew he couldn't change." I know I sound like a broken record here - but it's just like with dogs, some can be harder to train than others, and all require that you tweak things a little bit to fit their needs and personalities. If you ever watch Zak George's videos on YouTube, you'll see that even something as simple as teaching a dog to "sit" may require tweaks, depending on the dog.

One of the reasons I wondered if you see animals as automatons is because if you do, you're going to have a really tough time working with them. You really didn't answer that question, so I don't want to dwell on it and waste your time, but that belief is going to hold you back if you have it. You're constantly going to be interpreting your rooster's behavior in that negative light, rather than figuring out why he's doing what he's doing and working with him to change it.

I also wonder if you view dogs as automatons and believe that people only "manage" their dogs but don't truly help them to change their behavior. I keep comparing roosters to dogs, but if you think dogs only act on instinct and are only "managed" by humans as well, then this comparison that I think is so true and so powerful will have no effect on you whatsoever. That's why I was trying to better understand your position. It does neither of us any good if I argue from an assumption that you don't share.

I also do highly recommend that book (from my last comment) if you do tend to see animals as automatons. (If you're at all interested, that is.)

I was trying to see if you believed chickens were capable of friendship because if you do use positive dog training on your rooster, you will be forming a friendship with him. There's really no way around that. My roosters love me and want to follow me everywhere. So, again, if you don't want a friendship or don't believe chickens are even capable of that (and I don't know if you feel that way or not), then I don't see how you could successfully train one.

I'm not trying to be rude, and I'm not saying you're going to fail so don't bother trying or anything like that. You seem a smart cookie and I'm sure if you ever really wanted to do this, you definitely could. I'm just getting the impression you don't really want to.

 

[sdm111]

I definitely disagree with you there - saying it's instinct doesn't show him empathy at all, in my opinion. Roosters attack for many different reasons. One of the main ones is they're treating you as a rival - and that's what the whole training is about, changing that relationship, not being a rival anymore. Redefining the relationship as a partnership. Other reasons they attack could be fear, insecurity, excitement, surprise, unrelated stress, on and on.

All I do is follow the methods the Featherbrain laid out in the article linked and they work like magic - you essentially just need to learn positive dog training methods. If you want to learn as quickly as possible, follow Zac George - watch his YouTube videos, read his book, apply it to roosters. It will take time - dog training is a skill, but roosters are worth it. In general, I've found that working with a rooster a couple times a day for even just a couple of weeks can completely transform him. Of course, some will learn faster, some slower - just like dogs, but it's never taken me longer than a few weeks of work with my boys. The more experience you get, the faster you can do it, as with all things.

Some will slide back, just like dogs, but when they do slide back, it's much easier to retrain them. Others won't slide back at all. They're all individuals with unique personalities. But I never assume the worst if one slides back (and by slide back, I typically mean a rooster tries to spur me once after not having done it for a really long time). I show him empathy, try to figure out the reason why he's behaving that way, spend about 5 minutes working with him, and then we're good. Honestly, it never feels like a big deal. Sometimes a child behaves really well for a long period of time and then "slides back" - either physically or verbally behaving in a way you don't like. You just deal with it and move on, but it doesn't mean that you're just "managing" a child who is always "mean" at heart and inherently incapable of truly changing his behavior.

I'll be honest here - If you are unwilling to consider that you can change your relationship with your rooster, then I don't see how you could follow through with the training. You essentially need to take the time and the effort to learn positive methods dog training, and just like with dogs, you have to work with their personalities. When one approach doesn't work, you need to change it a bit, as you would with dogs. But if you are convinced it's not going to work, I don't know why you would bother putting the time in to do it.

I don't want to discourage you or anybody else - it really isn't hard if you're committed. But you have to be willing to deal with any obstacles that come up, not just say, "I knew he couldn't change." I know I sound like a broken record here - but it's just like with dogs, some can be harder to train than others, and all require that you tweak things a little bit to fit their needs and personalities. If you ever watch Zak George's videos on YouTube, you'll see that even something as simple as teaching a dog to "sit" may require tweaks, depending on the dog.

One of the reasons I wondered if you see animals as automatons is because if you do, you're going to have a really tough time working with them. You really didn't answer that question, so I don't want to dwell on it and waste your time, but that belief is going to hold you back if you have it. You're constantly going to be interpreting your rooster's behavior in that negative light, rather than figuring out why he's doing what he's doing and working with him to change it.

I also wonder if you view dogs as automatons and believe that people only "manage" their dogs but don't truly help them to change their behavior. I keep comparing roosters to dogs, but if you think dogs only act on instinct and are only "managed" by humans as well, then this comparison that I think is so true and so powerful will have no effect on you whatsoever. That's why I was trying to better understand your position. It does neither of us any good if I argue from an assumption that you don't share.

I also do highly recommend that book (from my last comment) if you do tend to see animals as automatons. (If you're at all interested, that is.)

I was trying to see if you believed chickens were capable of friendship because if you do use positive dog training on your rooster, you will be forming a friendship with him. There's really no way around that. My roosters love me and want to follow me everywhere. So, again, if you don't want a friendship or don't believe chickens are even capable of that (and I don't know if you feel that way or not), then I don't see how you could successfully train one.

I'm not trying to be rude, and I'm not saying you're going to fail so don't bother trying or anything like that. You seem a smart cookie and I'm sure if you ever really wanted to do this, you definitely could. I'm just getting the impression you don't really want to.

It appears to me like you think you're better than everybody else and like to talk down to people. Narcissistic much? I think so.
I dont think you'll gain much respect that way

 

[Red Mangrove]

Roosters attack for many different reasons. One of the main ones is they're treating you as a rival

This is what it boils down to. Human and chicken misidentification. My own roosters don't see me as a chicken and any human can engage in any behavior around them with zero chance of violent assault

All too often roosters will be peaceful and gentle around adult humans but will viciously attack children with no warning or provocation. Same with various dog breeds

This isn't an issue for the childless of course, but for a working farm child aggression is inexcusable. No child needs to risk maiming when there's an infinite abundance of free and peaceful rooster breeds out there

 

[Rachel TW]

This is what it boils down to. Human and chicken misidentification. My own roosters don't see me as a chicken and any human can engage in any behavior around them with zero chance of violent assault

All too often roosters will be peaceful and gentle around adult humans but will viciously attack children with no warning or provocation. Same with various dog breeds

This isn't an issue for the childless of course, but for a working farm child aggression is inexcusable. No child needs to risk maiming when there's an infinite abundance of free and peaceful rooster breeds out there

I agree with you.

If I were raising chickens for production and planning on killing roosters anyway, I'd kill the pain-in-the-butt ones. And if I had children who were expected to do chicken chores, of course, their safety would come first.

I don't have children and I also don't farm my chickens - when I bring an animal into my home, I commit to the "forever home" concept. So no matter what problem I have with any of my animals, I'm committed to working through it.

The point I'm trying to make is for people who don't want to kill their rooster, there are other options.

When I first got started with chickens and encountered my first aggressive rooster, I didn't know what to do. Everyone told me to kill him because you can't change him. They were wrong, thankfully. I'm just trying to help other people who are in my position, because so many are still getting bombarded with "There's no hope, just kill him." as many of the comments in this thread have proven.

I respect that your position is different than mine, and it's not my goal at all to try to change your approach. Rooster training isn't for everyone - but it is a wonderful approach for people who don't want to kill their rooster.

 

[SarahGfa]

All I do is follow the methods the Featherbrain laid out in the article linked and they work like magic - you essentially just need to learn positive dog training methods.

You seem to think I have not already tried. In one of my old threads, I spent YEARS trying tame a tom turkey. I raised him from a poult and he imprinted on me as a sibling rival, so he wanted to fight me. Yes I used the "tree" method and let him beat the **** out of me while I sat with my head covered. Bad idea, turkey fights last for days. We went for long walks around the neighborhood, that worked well. As soon as we stopped he would try to kill me. I took him to the vet for a hormone implant, it did nothing. His attacks got worse every year, he started escaping the yard to attack the neighbors. I had to keep him confined in a pen, he fought the fence until he was bloody. Was he a "bad" turkey? No, he was born in the wrong environment and I could not change enough things in the world to make him happy.

I asked you to tell me about how YOU trained an "ultra-aggressive" rooster into a "nice" one, because I would like to learn for myself. Generalizations aren't helpful because reality is not as simple as an internet article. If the Featherbrain methods are like "magic", everyone would be doing that. You say that all it took was "treats and a little empathy", now let's hear more detail so that others can repeat your process and save more lives in the future.