Orchard questions

[MildlyOffensiveChicken]

I grew up with a bunch of fruit trees in the yard and a 1/3 acre “garden”. The garden had a lot of wasted space. But produced more than we ever needed. Gave away a lot. I can’t recall my parents ever planning or researching. It was plant the stuff we would eat, that was sold at Ace hardware or Kmart in packets. Trees and berry bushes were established by prior owner.

I have an area marked out that will be my non native plants orchard. The soil is poor. Lots of clay. Lots of rock. Native grass and bushes grow well. I bought it knowing the seller was dumping unproductive timberland. It’s at 4000’ in Montana Some slope in between much sharper slopes above and below. Trees in this area sometimes come down due to shallow roots. The downed trees are always youngish. There are a lot of 100’ tall Doug Firs doing fine.

I want to Fence in the 1/3- 1/2 acre and run cheap surplus cockerals to till and fertilize the land. But 16 weeks isn’t going to build any appreciable topsoil and the underlying clay/rock will remain.

Not sure how to approach this exactly.

Should I fill up and amend the soil/remove rock and then plant pasture/native grass and then run the chickens. Then plant trees?

Run the chickens. Till up and some amendment and remove rocks and plant trees.

Run the chickens and plant the trees no till, no soil amendments?


Apples, cherries, and maybe some apricots and plums. This is for non business purposes. Budget matters to a point. But if a couple hundred $s makes all the difference, then so be it.

 

[MildlyOffensiveChicken]

More context. Near the orchard area I terraced a garden. I dug down and processed about 38 yards of soil. Ended up with about 4 yards of rock out of that 38 yards. Lots of clay.

 

[TheFatBlueCat]

I would go with your first option, but I'd put the chickens through first with a pile of compost and whatever organic matter you can get your hands on to smash it all up and get that sweet sweet chicken poop into it. Then rock pick, till (if needed) and plant a mix of grasses, legumes, and deep rooted plants (like tillage radish, sunflower, whatever might work in your climate and conditions) to help the soil. Graze that with chickens again. See what you think of the soil after that, and either leave the chickens there to till it all into goop for you or take them off, rest the pasture, and graze them again.

Have you had a look at any permaculture strategies for orchards? You might find some good inspiration or ideas that would fit your situation.

 

[TheFatBlueCat]

Also when you order your trees, make sure you select the right rootstock for your soil. I can't advise you on that without more info on your environment and what rootstocks are locally available to you but the nurseries that grow the trees should have a selection and be able to give you guidance on that.

 

[MildlyOffensiveChicken]

Also when you order your trees, make sure you select the right rootstock for your soil. I can't advise you on that without more info on your environment and what rootstocks are locally available to you but the nurseries that grow the trees should have a selection and be able to give you guidance on that.

The local native only plants nursery said they would recommend thankfully.

 

[MildlyOffensiveChicken]

I would go with your first option, but I'd put the chickens through first with a pile of compost and whatever organic matter you can get your hands on to smash it all up and get that sweet sweet chicken poop into it. Then rock pick, till (if needed) and plant a mix of grasses, legumes, and deep rooted plants (like tillage radish, sunflower, whatever might work in your climate and conditions) to help the soil. Graze that with chickens again. See what you think of the soil after that, and either leave the chickens there to till it all into goop for you or take them off, rest the pasture, and graze them again.

Have you had a look at any permaculture strategies for orchards? You might find some good inspiration or ideas that would fit your situation.

I should probably read more and listen to some podcast stuff.

Radish and sunflower grow well here.

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

I would start getting some gypsum put down now. We had heavy clay in area I now have my orchard in. Gypsum breaks down the clay.
But rocks...

 

[MildlyOffensiveChicken]

I would start getting some gypsum put down now. We had heavy clay in area I now have my orchard in. Gypsum breaks down the clay.
But rocks...

It’s under 2 1/2 feet of snow. I’ll do some reading on gypsum.

 

[TheFatBlueCat]

Really depends on how quickly you want the trees in! You could dig large holes and fill with good soil and amendments, and plant them right away (when the snow is gone). But that has the risk of the trees keeping their root systems within that hole of goodness you gave them, and that doesn't sound like what you want there with younger trees falling over.

I tend to go with slow and steady wins the race. You can put in hardier plants like blackberry, hazelnut, raspberry etc in the meantime so you have some fruits/nuts.

 

[Red-Stars-in-RI]

For orchard, my thinking is that removing rocks is maybe a bit less important than if you were going to put in an annual garden. I like the idea of getting as much organic material in there as possible and then putting some chickens in to mix it in.

The soil quality should increase with the organic material and then grasses or other plants. I could see adding some good soil/compost to the holes in which you plant trees, but like someone else said, you want to make sure the holes are big enough that the roots spread out.