Please help me understand meat eaters not wanting to process a chicken!

[jimbob86]

I have not read through the whole thread (yet!) but wanted to put down a couple of thoughts before I get sidetracked onto other things:

1- Several posters have noted that the vast majority of people have become detached from their food, where it comes from, how it prepared, etc ........ I believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg: The vast majority of people in our modern western society have become detached from nearly everything that does not directly involve either their own work specialty that they are often highly trained in and/or a prticular hobby that they enjoy ....... the days of a basic formal education producing intelligent, well rounded, reasoning people are long gone..... today's schools produce, by and large, experts in narrow fields that are unable to function at all beyonds the bounds of that field ...... they don't question, they don't reason, they don't think...... they generally don't DO much at all, but work and consume the drek that comes marketed at them from various outlets, be it TV, internet, restaraunt/food, music...... whatever..... ""Specialization is for Insects", and most people really bug me!"

2- re: factory farms

These places irk me, especially the notion that because they are inspected by whatever government apparatchik is required, they are somehow "safer". Horsefeathers. When you have these huge un-natural monocultures that are only kept from collapse by liberal doses of anti-biotics, antiseptics, and careful feed management, you are not preventing the collapse, only delaying it ....while you make the diseases that you are desperately keeping at bay stronger and more drug resistant ....... when the collapse comes, it will be gigantic: MILLIONS of birds die, and whole regions must be quarantined, like NW Iowa and NE Nebraska were this spring. Conversely, when joe blow has a problem in his flock, a few birds die. No big deal. ..... but there is money (in the short term) in it, so it will continue ..... and now they are trying to spread it to the beef industry....... heaven help us!

 

[jimbob86]

OK, have read the whole thread ...... and understand that some people will not (as opposed to "can not") kill to eat, but are fine with others doing their killing for them. I do not understand the logic (if any) behind that, though......sorry OP, can't help you.

 

[jimbob86]

Why is this so hard to understand? It's unpleasant.

As I was explaining to my daughter (taking medicine she did not like) : Yes, it is unpleasant. Many things in life are unpleasant ....that's no reason not do something that must be done.

 

[jimbob86]

As to the disdain for specialization - specialization is the fundamental basis of civilization - without specialization we don't have medicine, we don't have technology, and we don't have time to do anything but grow food.

Not so. Codified rules, including the concept of property rights and the family unit are the basis of Civilization. Professional classes comes later down the line ....

 

[CrazyTalk]

Not so. Codified rules, including the concept of property rights and the family unit are the basis of Civilization. Professional classes comes later down the line ....

Codified rules happen about the same time you have chieftans, shamans, etc - which are professional classes.


We have all the stuff we have because people don't have to waste their time growing and killing their own food. Lamenting that is insane.

 

[Beekissed]

But "It must be done" isn't true.


Your daughter has to take her medicine - she can't have someone else do it for her. Growing/killing/harvesting food, cleaning your septic tank, and changing your oil are all things that you ABSOLUTELY CAN have someone else do for you. Paying other people to do thinks that they're better at/enjoy more is pretty much the basis for human society. There's nothing wrong with that.

We could have this same thread about how all you people are so "distanced" from electricity generation, and you should all understand how many millions of animals are killed so you can watch TV - and you should disconnect from the grid and make your own electricity with a crank wheel hooked to a motor - so you really understand.


And it would be no more of a waste of time than this thread, and it would be no less morally correct.

Actually, I could go right along with the whole dependence on electricity and gadgets thread, as I don't have or watch TV nor a cell phone and have lived off grid for a large portion of my life growing up and could do it again in a heartbeat...actually, we still aren't too dependent upon the grid right now. I think it would be of HUGE benefit for everyone to have to live off grid for an extended period of their lives so they can understand what they are truly capable of and learn to live without what they consider a necessity to their lives...easy comforts and convenient food supplies that are the cause of huge problems in this world, both to the populace and the Earth. At that point they'd start to see the value of killing and processing their own food as part of a more independent life that leaves a smaller footprint on this world.

I'm game...start the thread!

 

[Beekissed]

No one said it was more important than anything else...that's your words. Folks just saying it's of great benefit to any person to have more versatility and skill sets in their lives that do not require dependence on "modern society". Do you imagine that the current infrastructure of the nation is so very secure and steadfast that you will always have the modern conveniences and "modern society" on which to depend and build a life upon? No one is suggesting that anyone is inferior if they cannot kill a chicken, that is another phrase that is your own. What they are suggesting is that food is necessary to life, so it just might be a good idea to develop a skill set or mind set that can help one if their "modern" society is not functioning as it normally does...and that is coming soon and very soon.

And, yes, food produced en masse is causing HUGE problems on this Earth and is not the "basis of society", but rather the ruination of society as the populace grows more and more dependent on monocropping and CAFOs that destroy the health of the Earth, the animals and the people who live on it. As they grow more dependent on that food source, they are more easily controlled by those who own those food sources, while blithely distancing themselves from any responsibility for what this all means for the environment and our society as a whole.

Killing a chicken isn't more important than anything else, but in the broad view of things it can become a part of a much bigger issue that is pretty important indeed.

 

[CrazyTalk]

No one said it was more important than anything else...that's your words. Folks just saying it's of great benefit to any person to have more versatility and skill sets in their lives that do not require dependence on "modern society".

You may not be saying that, but that's the entire gist of this thread - the entire thread is one long 'talking down' to people who don't slaughter their own food. Lots of claims that they're disconnected, ignorant, weak, cowardly, hypocrites, etc. None of these sort of insults are hurled at people who don't change their own oil, or people who don't code their own web browser to use the internet.

I completely agree that it's a great asset to have many skills - I just don't think slaughtering your own food is a particularly important one. I don't think our world is about to fall apart like you seem to think, and even if it did, things can be traded or bartered - being a farmer has NEVER been a position of security - it's hard, tiring, poor work.


If you don't think growing food en masse is the basis for society, then you simply do not understand anthropology, or history. I would suggest Jared Diamond's pulitzer prize winning book - Guns, Germs and Steel. Every single advancement of human culture and technology in the last 50,000 years is a direct result of increasing our ability to produce food more efficiently. The entire history of human conquest is nothing but a symptom of the increasing ability to mass produce food in specific locations, and leveraging that productivity.

 

[Mini Meat]

Can you image what it must be like to be the person that slaughters chickens for a living? All day, day after day. I can only imagine it is soul sucking work. I don't think that paying someone to kill for you can be compared to paying for any other service.

My problem with meat eaters who won't do the deed for themselves is the way they look at ME... like I have two heads, and then give me the oh, so superior "I could never!" Those of us who do are often looked down on by those who don't. I bet you if I gave a dressed bird to every one of my friends and family most of them would think it was gross and not eat the bird. This leaves me shaking my head.

I think our calories come too cheap in todays world. Quantity is chosen over quality. Not just in our food system but in the majority of our consumption. This leads to waste on a scale that is sickening and a lack of appreciation for the hard work and recourses needed to produce things. It is ultimately unsustainable.

Mass produced foods lead to a lack of diversity (many, many foods, including animal feed, are made from, or rely on, soy and corn). This lack of diversity is a vulnerability. Modern agriculture is dependent on a string of inputs produced off farm. Sure we see a wide variety of products year round but most of those are sourced from thousands of miles away and must be shipped to the consumer. Much of the chicken you see in the store comes from China... no thank you. It would not take much to upset such a complex food system. Civilizations have fallen due to agricultural failure in the past.

So many thing outside my control leave me personally vulnerable. I am striving to be more of a producer and less of a consumer.

 

[Morrigan]

My problem with meat eaters who won't do the deed for themselves is the way they look at ME... like I have two heads, and then give me the oh, so superior "I could never!" Those of us who do are often looked down on by those who don't. I bet you if I gave a dressed bird to every one of my friends and family most of them would think it was gross and not eat the bird. This leaves me shaking my head.

This is where I'm at as well. There is a world of difference between someone saying "killing a chicken must be difficult and I'm grateful that others are willing to do that for me" vs. someone looking at me with their face scrunched in disgust saying "How can you do THAT, I could never." The overwhelming impression is that they think they are too decent and nice to kill an animal, whereas I, apparently, am not. It rankles.

I agree that specialization and the ability to engage in more efficient agriculture have led to unbelievable advances in society, many of which are to the great good. But I do worry we are crossing a line in which we are too divorced from basic understanding -- and appreciation -- of where our food comes from. I read somewhere that 40% of the food purchased in the US is ultimately thrown away. Not to mention the rising problem of obesity. In general, I think if more people had to participate, even for a short while, in the raising of their own food, they would be more moderate and less wasteful with their eating.