Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!

[happyfeet]

I have a one year old aracuna hen that started wheezing/gasping/sounds like struggling for air. my daughter says she sounds like a duck. I picked her up and felt down her entire throat to see if anything was lodged in it, nothing. she has no nasal discharge. it was very hot today, but even after it cooled down she was still making those noises. none of my other hens are making those sounds. her coloring is fine, feathers are not ruffled. What the heck??????should i have seperated her when i closed the barn? She was on the roost with all the others. Does anybody have any clue what the heck is wrong with her???? sick, eggbound????

 

[happyfeet]

?

 

[threehorses]

Well we really need more information in addition to what you've given. For example: what type of bedding in the coop, what is she eating exactly, and where does she spend her day?

Tomorrow, I would pick her up and try to find exactly where that noise is coming from. Use your ear right up against her to pinpoint if the noise is in her upper throat, lower throat, or near her ribs/back. Check her then to see if she has any congestion at that point in her nose, etc. She doesn't seem distressed? Not pale face, or blue comb?

I'd probably isolate her for now in case it turns out to be respiratory. If it isn't, it won't hurt anything; if it is, it might save other birds.

Update us tomorrow, please. Please also include how fat/thin she is, whether or not she lays regularly (since you're concerned about egg binding), etc. Try to keep her from getting too hot tomorrow and see if she'll drink/eat. Try a wet (damp) mash of crumbles and water if she won't eat dry.

 

[happyfeet]

she is not fat or thin;average size aracuna. her comb is normal in color, nothing is pale. all of my chickens free range; i open the barn in the morning-they go in and out for food, water, and into nesting boxes as they please, at dark, they go in and roost and are locked up by 8:30p. i have always bedded them on pine shavings. they eat a layena crumble with scratch-50/50 mix, they also get kitchen scraps every now and again, they also eat bugs and grass they find in the yard. they have not had grapes or anything they can choke on. i have had chickens for over three years and have never seen or heard this before.

 

[happyfeet]

she does not seem to be too distressed. she is roaming around this morning. still no nasal discharge this am. when they come in tonight i will isolate her.

any body have any ideas on what it is?

can you take a chickens temp.? if so what should it be?

 

[threehorses]

Weird. Is she still making the noise? Could be infectious bronchitis. Could be something else bacterial with mucus. But if she's showing on respiratory symptoms other than that, it's hard to tell. Chicken illnesses are so vague anyway - they all share the same symptoms with a few hallmark symptoms possibly that distinguish one from another. Infectious laryngeotracheitis has blood slinging with coughing, pasteurella has tortitollis and excess slobber, coryza has a strong fetid smell to the exudate, MG has eye bubbling - but those signs don't have to be present to be the disease. So it's tricky.

Without any other symptoms, the best thing to do would indeed be isolate her a few days to see if the disease progresses, treat her with supportive nutrition and something to ease her throat inflammation, and just watch.

I'd recommend at least vitamin/minerals in her water (or polyvisol drops without iron, 3 in the beak daily - best option), yogurt or probiotics in case there's drainage you're not seeing (live bacteria to prevent secondary diarrhea), VetRx (diluted 50/50 with hot water stirred til warm) on q-tips used to swab the nares and roof of her mouth (mucus/congestion).

Then we'll see if anything else comes up.

Since you mentioned egg laying, just to let you know that cutting laying feed with scratch (which is supposed to be handfuls-treat, not a diet) will raise the phosphorus of the total diet to the point where eventually the hens are likely to stop laying, start doing shell less eggs and egg binding. Any grain, cut into fortified laying feed, will do that even if free choice oyster shell is provided as it always should be for a laying flock. Part of calcium providing is vitamin D, which there is none in scratch. Even a grain more usual for an actual feedstuff will do that as all grains are high in phosphorus.

Calcium absorbtion is a three legged stool: calcium, vitamin D, and phosphorus. If one is too heavy, the others will suffer. In the case of calcium, if you provide too much phos for a while (particularly without vitamin D being a good level) then the bird will actually start to take calcium out of its own bones, if internal laying doesn't kill it first.

So if egg laying is a concern, you might want to bump the layer up to at least 80% of the diet, and make sure they always have calcium available. If you do anything less than 90% laying feed, I'd spray the feed twice weekly with cod liver oil to provide vitamin D however.

 

[happyfeet]

Threehorses-
Thank you so much for the GREAT answer and info. I have grown up around horses and livestock, not chickens. I used to be a lead vetrinary assistant at an equine hospital. Doesnt help with poultry, i did all large animal. I always mixed scratch with thier feed becuase they liked it. i feel terrible!!!

I have lost a few chickens to what i assume has been egg binding, they died in the nesting box. i was told by the local chicken lady youll have that with laying hens , not to worry. my chickens also get oatmeal in mornings, warm on cold days, cold on hot days, we usually add fruit to it as well. I really thought i was being nice by mixing their feed with scratch, they love it so much.

Well bad news- one of my hens was dead tonight and i hear raspy breathing out of about 10 hens. No nasal disharge. One hen with a loud "wheeze" i guess you would call it. and 9 others with the raspy breathing. color is fine, appetite is fine, poo is fine, no lethargy. I am going to assume it is a respritory something, what should i give/start them on? i am going to start them on yogurt daily and electrolytes in water. i am sure i could get my hands on some antibiotics. What is recommended for respritory problems in poultry?

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Oh my goodness, please don't feel horrible. They like it, and honestly soooo many people think scratch is a feed. I did once - I had to learn. Just throw them out handfuls of the scratch - make them work for it, use it as a bribe - just keep it in lower numbers so the diet is balanced - just like balancing the cal/phos in horse diets with alfalfa and grass hays, really. The concepts are very similar, but the poultry systems are designed for very very heavy calcium usage.

Well I'm sad to hear about the raspy breathing - does sound like respiratory. Tylan soluble is a great drug, as is LS50 soluble for these things. Try to rule out environmental stuff - mildew, stale air, etc - hay can be problematic as a bedding, or cedar can be, too. If you use Tylan soluble, you can still use yogurt as a probiotic. If you use lS50 or Duramycin, you'll have to use a product like Probios (just like for horses/cattle) or acidophilis capsules/tablets from the vitamin section of the grocery/drug stores.

Just like any animal, you know to complete the days of treatment for the antibiotics - at least 7, 10 is good. Bad cases 14 days on the Duramycin. If you're a good hand with syringes, you could use Tylan50 injectable for a 3 day treatment period. It's extremely good.

Please don't be hard on yourself - you're doing well as a poultry owner - there are just some things that it takes a while to hear and myths to break, like the "scratch is a good diet" myth - we've all heard it, and most of us had to learn the hard way. I sure did!

 

[happyfeet]

I dont feel comfortable giving the hens shots. i have never seen it done and i dont even know where to give it or how; sub-q, im, iv; how do you find a vein on a chicken? since i could only find the tylan injectable, i got duramycin-10 souluble. it is a 10g package and is calling for 500-600 mg per gallon per day. i have a five gallon waterer. Any suggestions? i have a scale that weighs out ounces, not grams.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Shots on chickens are pretty easy as they don't kick you like horses can.

They're usually IM (antibiotics are) - in the breast muscle.

On Duramycin 10, it's 3 teaspoons per gallon for 10 days. Because I dislike "hearsay" dosages, I'm going to paste my 'worksheet' for the dosage below.

Remember - no yogurt during that time. But please do use acidophilis to prevent a secondary diarrhea issue or fungal infection, or other bacterial enteritis.

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FIGURING OUT THE DURAMYCIN 10 DOSAGE
Never use a "hearsay" dosage.

Here's the actual dosage math for this brand at 10g per 6.4 ounce package.

OK according to this package, they want you to dose at about 500mg - 800mg per gallon of water for chickens. (http://www.durvet.com/L/119_L.pdf )
They state that the dosage will depend on the age of the bird (chicks get weaker strength), and how much they'll drink (birds that drink a lot get a little weaker strength).

10g = 10,000 mg. There are 10 grams in the package at 6.4 ounces.

Adults: 10,000 mg divided by 800mg = 12 doses per package. 12 doses = 6.4 ounces. 6.4/12 = 0.54 ounce per serving. We'll say 1/2 ounce per serving. 1/2 ounce = 3 teaspoons (kitchen measure spoon)

Babies: 10,000mg/800mg = 20 doses per package. 6.4 ounces/20 servings = 0.32 ounce per serving. 0.32 ounces = 2 teaspoons (kitchen measuring spoon).

For adults, that means 3 teaspoons in one gallon of water as his sole drinking ration for 7-14 days. Because this is a 'cycline' you can't use yogurt with it, but because of his illness and how long he's going to be on, you will HAVE to use a probiotic. That means you'll want to either use acidophilis capsules from the grocer or druggist vitamin section, or a health food store, or the Probios. Thankfully you have Probios, so you're set.

It says that if you don't see changes in three to four days, that the medicine isn't the right one. It says to discontinue use - I wouldn't do so unless you had another medicine on hand.

The birds absolutely must receive the full dosage of this - either the 2 or 3 teaspoons in the gallon (and of course, you can break than down into 1/2 teaspoon per 32 ounce waterer. They can't just receive a bit by mouth and then drink plain water. Nor should one ever use a couple of days worth, or discontinue when symptoms stop. Symptoms stopping means that the medicine is the RIGHT one and to continue it until 7-10 days, absolutely no less.

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TREATING RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES IN POULTRY by Nathalie Ross


When treating a respiratory illness in my chickens, no matter what the cause (fungal, environmental, bacteria, viral) I like to attack the problem from multiple angles at once: Medicinal, nutritional, environmental, and through supportive products.


Medicinal: This should be handled on an individual basis for each situation. The one bit of advice I would give is that if you DO treat for bacterial illness with antibiotics, be sure to use the correct antibiotic, the strongest you can get for that problem, for the full dosage and full duration. Never let them "sip", give for a short period, or give partial dosages. And leave Baytril as a last resort.

NUTRITIONAL/VITAMINS:
To help tackle a respiratory illness, I keep in mind that the body needs fuel to do its job. Not only is the bird still having to nourish itself to survive, but there's the extra stress of providing materials to fight the intruder - the pathogen causing the illness. There are certain nutrients that boost the immune system and increase healing for respiratory illnesses and I like to take full advantage of them. Anything that I can do to boost the chicken's immune system, I will do.

Vitamin A (and its precursor beta-carotene) is one of the weapons in my arsenal against respiratory illness. Vitamin A is a most important vitamin for ocular, mucus membrane, and respiratory health. It is so important to the chicken that a lack of sufficient vitamin A in the diet can actually CAUSE respiratory illness. So it's one of the first nutrients I make sure to supplement to an ill bird.

If the bird doesn't have caseous nodules (yellow-whitish pimples) in the inside of its eyelids, mouth, throat, etc, you can simply treat with a more broad spectrum oil type vitamin liquid. Because vitamin A is an oil vitamin, I feel that using oil or liquid/oil sources is more effective than dried sources. So I prefer a vitamin like PolyViSol baby vitamins (Enfamil brand) used in the individual bird's beak daily. Don't buy the iron-fortified, but the non-iron-fortified. You can find it in the vitamin section of many stores, including Walmart. For a chick, it's 1 drop in the beak for 7 days and then taper off. For a young or medium bird, 2 drops. For a larger bird, 3 drops.

If I'm treating a flock, I prefer to use fortified wheat germ oil, or cod liver oil, in a quickly eaten damp mash that I prepare for the birds daily. For the cod liver oil, depending on which kind you use you can use a very small amount in some crumbles that you will put on top of their feed or use it in a quickly eaten damp mash. For wheat germ oil, I mix a capful into a cup of feed and stir well. I think stir this into a half gallon of feed and give that three times a week on top of their other feed.

This takes care of A vitamins quite nicely.

The benefit of the polyvisol is that it also contains other vitamins helpful to the bird.

NUTRITIONAL/PROBIOTICS:

In all cases of illness or stress, I provide probiotics to my birds but particularly for respiratory illnesses. Probiotics are non-medicinal sources of living bacteria used to replenish the beneficial bacteria present in the avian digestive system. Good bacteria live in and 'colonize' the digestive tract, helping the bird to digest their foods, and additionally competing with bad bacteria/fungi for the digestive tract. Having a strong supply of beneficial bacteria not only keeps a flock more thrifty and vigorous, but will increase their resistance to digestive disease.

If you're not using a medicine whose active ingredients end in -cycline or -mycin (read the label), then you can use plain unflavored yogurt. Most yogurts in the US contain a source of living bacteria, Lactobacilli. (Make sure and read the label for "contains live cultures".) Lactobacillus acidophilus will colonize the gut of the chicken. Use 1 teaspoon per 6 chicks to 1 tablespoon per large adult fowl as a guiding dosage. It doesn't have to be exact, but you don't want to give something as great as a cup to birds. Although birds are normally less able to digest as many milk products as humans and mammals, yogurt contains less lactose and so is less upsetting to their system within reasonable use. The live bacteria as well as its D vitamin fortification and protein make it an inexpensive and worthy probiotic.

If you ARE using a -mycin of -cycline drug, then substitute with acidophilis capsules/tablets (the contents thereof), or with a prepared live probiotic for livestock such as Probios brand dispersible powder. The powders are often easier to sneak into treats to give to birds.

No probiotics should be given in the water, despite labeling. They're best given in a small amount of quickly eaten damp feed. Yogurt can be mixed with water, and then that mixture mixed with a few crumbled pellets of the bird's normal diet and that fed first thing in the morning. removing the feed 20 minutes before giving the healthful damp mash ensures that they're more interested in it. You can also hide other healthful ingredients in the same mash.

The reason this is so important for respiratory birds, even if not medicated, is that the ocular and nasal sinuses drain into the digestive tract through the opening in the roof of the bird's beak. The drainage can upset the bacterial flora of the gut and cause it to be reduced which leaves the bird more vulnerable to diarrhea and digestive secondary illnesses like yeast/fungus, and pathogenic bacteria.

NUTRITION/PROTEIN:
As ill birds are often reluctant to eat, sometimes I like to use boiled/mashed eggs as part of a daily damp mash to tempt them to at least eat the nutritional supplements I'm trying to give them daily. The extra protein helps birds who are healing to have a little more fuel.

SUPPORTIVE PRODUCTS/VETRX:
VetRx is an herbal based oil that is non-medicinal but very helpful to birds being treated for respiratory illness. The purpose of VetRx is to facilitate air flow through the sinuses of the bird, reduce mucus, and possibly reduce inflammation. If VetRx for poultry cannot be found, any other of the "species" of vetrx (rabbit, cagedbird, etc) can be used the same. If that cannot be found, Marshal Pet Peter Rabbit Rx is the same and can be found at many big-chain pet stores.

VetRx is best used to swab the upper respiratory area. Mix a few drops of very hot water and a few drops of VetRx in a cup. Stir well to cool the water while emulsifying the oil into the water. Use q-tips to apply to the bird: a new q-tip end for each individual spot, an absolutely new q-tip per each bird. The q-tip can be quite damp for all applications. Swab the nostrils (nares) well, press a q-tip into the cleft opening in the roof of the beak of the bird. Pressing gently there can sometimes cause the VetRx to bubble into the eye, which is acceptable. It's not necessary but a benefit. Use either some very dilute VetRx one drop in each eye or (my preference) simply swab near each tear duct. The box recommends using in the water so that when the birds drink, they treat their own beaks as the oil floats on top. This is an option; I rarely follow it as sometimes I use the water to give other things. You can, however, use it wherever the bird wipes their eyes on their feathers, or where they lay their head when they sleep.

A bird that can't breathe will not eat; A bird that will not eat will not heal. Bacteria generally hate oxygen, so we want air flowing all through the sinuses.

SUPPORTIVE PRODUCTS/OACV: If you're not medicating in the water, and if your birds have a lot of mucus in their throats (gurgling, coughing, etc) the you can use organic apple cider vinegar in their water during illness to help reduce mucus and help support digestive health. The dosage is always 1 teaspoon of OACV to one gallon of water. The reason for using the organic is that it's unfiltered and still contains some of the prebiotics and lactobacilli that will act in concert with your yogurt to promote digestive tract health. The pH of this solution will also correct the pH of the digestive tract (which, remember, is being bombarded by nasal secretions) so that it's more friendly for good bacteria, and UNfriendly for opportunistic fungus and bacteria. A correct pH facilitates good nutrient absorbtion and we do want our ill birds to get everything they can from their food. The reason for using organic is not philosophical, but because of its mode of manufacture; there's still some good left in it.

ENVIRONMENTAL/AIR FLOW:
All birds, because of their specialized respiratory system, are highly dependent on superior air quality and ventilation. Birds who have reduced breathing ability in respiratory illness are particularly dependent on good air. They should be kept as all birds are: in well ventilated but not drafty conditions with few fumes or odors in the air, in a non-dusty bedding. This is particularly true if you cannot rule out an environmental cause for illness (ammonia, mildew spores in the air, etc).

ENVIRONMENTAL/BIOSECURITY;
When you have multiple birds, the sick bird/flock should always be cared for after all the other chores are done. You want to reduce all changes of infecting other birds, or even challenging possibly exposed birds who aren't showing symptoms (yet). Isolate sick birds unless you intend to treat the flock. Then it really does help to isolate the sick birds so that they don't have to compete for feed. Keep something like overalls or a big man's shirt in the 'sick area' and put it on before handling the birds, taking it off before leaving the coop. Keep anti-bacterial gel in that area to wipe your hands as you leave so that you don't contaminate the doorknobs of your house. Of course, wash thoroughly when all chores are done. Be sure to disinfect all the feeders and waterers more often as the droplets of their respiratory exudates will be on feeders and waterers. If you have family or friends over, try to keep only one person handlng the sick flock and ask everyone never to go from the sick flock to the well.

I hope that these suggestions will help you when it comes time to treat your flock for respiratory illness. All suggestions have been used by me personally on everything from slight cases to extreme cases. They work well for me, and I hope that they will help you to bring your flock back to full health.

Thank you for taking the time to read my article and consider my suggestions.

Nathalie Ross
(Please do not reproduce without permission of the author. The author is not a veterinarian and always recommends a good qualified avian vet attend your ill birds first. No information is intended to supercede that of a qualified veterinarian.)
August 1, 2009