Porcelain Project

[MumsyII]

Most Porcelain threads for Silkies on the forum seem dead or dying and because I'm late to the party, it seems logical to start new.

Many excellent breeders are doing great things with this Silkie variety. I live on an island and acquiring the birds I need is not easy by any means. To breed Porcelain in a way that pleases me, using what I have in my flock is going to take some years of diligent pairing and careful record keeping.

I will lay out the project and it's progress here and would be happy for others to comment and share their successes and miss steps in their own efforts towards getting a beautiful Porcelain Silkie.

This is the formula I'll be using:

Light Partridge hen.


She was hatched from a Catdance egg purchased at the farm in March 2013.


She developed into this pullet.
I have no other Partridge Silkies.

She was put with a Porcelain Cock.


He was hatched in the same batch as the Partridge hen.


He developed into this cockerel. I have no other Porcelain Silkies.



I was given a tour of Catdance Farm by Karen Larson and saw the Porcelain pen he came from. It was awe inspiring.


Lavender Cock, Buff, and Porcelain hens.

The Partridge hen hatched seven lovely chicks from this Porcelain Cock. I no longer have him so one of these chicks will hopefully be a male worthy to keep my Porcelain project going.



I will breed the best male from these to my only Lavender Silkie hen. She also was hatched from the same batch of Catdance eggs.





Day old female Lavender chick.

.
She is now a year and a half old and just started laying. I have no other Lavender Silkies.

So...This is the plan for the project.

Please feel free to comment, share, or advise. I know it is a long shot but I've got the time and gumption to follow through.

 

[MumsyII]

The first offspring from the first mating are about four weeks old. Hatched May 28.
Each has been banded and recorded in the journal.




Chick #1



Chick #2



Chick #3



Chick #4
I like this chick but the green zip means something is less than desirable with toes. It has a crab claw forth and fifth on the right foot. Both have toe nails.

These four chicks are closest to looking Porcelain and show definite lavender and buff coloration from the Porcelain sire.



Chick #5 looks more like the Partridge hens coloring.



Chick #6 looks like a darker version of chick #5.



Chick #7 is a pretty chick but has four toes on the right foot. Not going to put it in any breeding pen but will grow it out to document it's progress in color and type over all.

 

[Fur N Feathers]

I'm glad we found each other! I was so depressed thinking I was the worse chicken momma! I was really confused by the Blue chicks. I didn't understand what she told me about those pens. I took lots of pictures while there but it was so over whelming it was difficult for me to grasp all she was saying about all the variety and each pen. Her farm is HUGE. We walked through four big barns filled with individual breeding pens. Up until going there, I only had seen White and Black Silkies of quality over twenty years ago. The pens that jumped out at me the most were the Porcelain and Lavender pens. I had never and I mean NEVER seen such beautiful Silkies in my life. They were stunning to put it simply. I hope to get back there again and look at the Paint pen more closely. We kind of breezed past it because it was kind of over my head when she talked about it. She is a wonderful woman and was very generous with her knowledge. It was so much to take in. My Paint cock is the founding father of my Paints too! We should start a thread together about them! I'm so bummed I didn't get a chance to breed this pullet to Lavender. My breeding efforts with Catdance lines is set back a year but not over. I'm going to get more eggs and try again. My husband built me a new chick house to keep them separate from the adult flock next time. They were all mixed in with my adult white pen. I don't think they had enough time to build up immunities to anything.

Me too! I wonder is she has a blue, black, splash pen? I don't remember her mentioning that but I bet she does. Those blue girls are quite beautiful!!! I'm sorry you didn't get to use them too. That last one looks so much like my partridge one it's remarkable. I'll post her picture later on at what I am guessing would be the approximate age. You know I keep getting set backs, but I can be bull headed and I just get sad, then I get mad and push my way back through. This is the first baby I lost. A little lavender female. If she had lived I would have had a pair of them. She seemed very week from day one and died at 3 days.

Ok, so that left me with five original babies. These are pictures as they got into that gawky stage, then a couple of weeks after that when they are becoming their mini adult selves:

The little porcelain girl, because she was a lone chick, I ran down to the feed store and bought a single chick to be her companion. You can just see the attitude all over her face! She just barely tolerated him. He was one ugly little boy, but he was lavender.

OK found one of the CatDance partridge right quick. That is the porcelain girl scratching so I don't get off topic.

I've got to go get stuff done, but will be back after while.

 

[MumsyII]

I'll keep the Arabian thread in mind. Thank you. Truly.

Yes. Watching the flock and grow out chicks is better than any tv program ever. Relaxing for me as well. I have kept meticulous notes on my chickens since I started out with nothing but breeder quality. I haven't bought a hatchery/feed store chick since 1989. I cull heavily because my space is limited. I used to sell all culls now we process them for the stock pot, I give a few away as pets. Some go into the free range layer flock for bug and weed control. Mostly those that are favorite old hens that I'm no longer breeding. I've been a farmer all my life and do not get sentimental about live stock. I name breeders and rarely will use them for the table. If they are breeders, it's because they were chosen for superior quality for eggs, meat, or exhibition. The Silkies are my favorite exhibition breed and though I haven't shown in many years, I know how to breed and condition for showing and that is what is fun for me.
I put on mock shows for young pullets and cockerels to help me decide which to keep in the breeding program. Sometimes you can't see some details in type until you get them side by side and still pictures to study carefully. This is my set up for mock shows. I can be a pretend judge and train them for show cages at the same time. As well as get them used to being handled.


The larger table is new. There are two bantam cages on it with wire floor. The smaller table holds two LF cages. I use it to judge my Heritage RIR.

The Silkies love to rest in the shade under the tables.


This is how I was able to get a really good comparison on two of my big boys. The poster board in the back is a size grid. Helps me judge length and height at a glance. I wound up keeping both these cockerels. They get turns with the hen flock.

 

[MumsyII]

Yep! Sharing ideas is what I hope this thread generates. Both in breeding Porcelains and flock management.

Your birds are beautiful. You seem to have a wonderful system in place.

My Silkies and HRIR are all from exhibition blood lines but I consider all chickens as possible meat or egg birds. Nothing goes to waste. My garden and orchard is the final resting place for most though. We bury remains under fruit trees and roses. It is a way for all to contribute in some way or another. I believe it is an honorable way for a chicken in the end. To nurture life in an endless circle.

Poultry shows are fun and I would participate if they weren't so difficult to attend. The closest shows are three hours and a ferry trip. Some time in the next few years I would like to enter some of my best. It's going to take at least a couple years to get my silkie pens breeding up to Standard. My HRIR could enter right now. They are amazing.

My flocks have been closed for a year. No new birds come in except through hatching eggs from reliable breeders that I know and trust. I practice strict bio-security. If there was an exceptional breeder someone was willing to trade with me, I may succumb. Hah!

But so far, no one I know on my island has birds of my bloodlines.


My youngest Grandson feeding the flock in the yard last summer.

 

[MumsyII]

Wow she is so beautiful! I'd love to see the parent birds, specifically the partridge you used. I have 1 partridge but she is very dark. Almost a black but some blue on her down. I am going to try to get more partridge this weekend. I'd love to see what shade your mama bird is! Also does penciling mean it's a partridge not a porcelain or does it apply to gender sexing? Just wonder the significance in mentioning it.

Thank you. I posted pictures of the parents in the first couple posts.


This is my Catdance Partridge female when she was six months old. She has a lot of gold and a blue under color.

This is/was my Catdance Porcelain male at six months old. I think he has a lot of black feathers but he was excellent in other ways.

I was lucky in the chicks. They are a good cross between the two. I just wish I still had him so I could do it again.
Partridge color is based on wild type e+ gene. e b for brown. It is the wild gene that goes back to the original chicken called Jungle Fowl. It is much too complex for me to explain easily. Partridge involves so much more than a single gene.
You can often tell females from males from the patterning on the feathers. But in a cross like mine (Porcelain x Partridge) there are unknowns thrown in the gene pool.
When you get a chipmunk colored chick (brownish stripes and eyeliner) that is phenotype (what is physically visible) for the wild gene but the feathers can come in many variations.

Porcelain is hard enough for me to explain so I'm keeping this thread about my Porcelain project and started another thread about my Partridge project.

 

[MumsyII]

So with partridge silkies when do the boys lose their penciling? And what would you call the color of the little chick I posted a few days ago? Maybe I should ask these questions on the partridge thread since he's not actually a porcelain

Well, the penciling is there to stay but will probably get more pronounced. Yeah. The partridge thread will give you better feed back.

 

[MumsyII]

Catdance Farm website has not been updated in some time. It's possible she is not shipping eggs now. The sale birds listed on her website are sold and no others are offered.

 

[MumsyII]

Sounds like you lost alot to predators last year? Was it all at once? I'm so sorry, I imagine that it would be devastating. Looks like you put alot of time and thought and money into your breeding. I'm glad you're getting more boys growing out and I must say most of the ones I've seen pictures of are beautiful! Is Dapper Dan a Catdance?

I love your yard. The flower garden looks incredible. I lived in Olympia for awhile, it was amazing. I didn't mind the rain one bit, everything was so lush and green. About your bachelor pads; when do you seperate boys from girls? Also after you decide to retire a boy does he go into the stock pot? I've processed my own boys before but never any so old. I have no other plans as far as rooster retirement though. I don't want to make any

I just did separate the first two hatches. I try to put them together by age and size. I keep smaller boys with the girls until they catch up. Three months or so seems to be a good time. They are getting more into the mock fighting and tend to pick on the smaller ones more often. Boys all together still mock fight but one becomes a clear leader and it is pretty much peaceful in the boy grow out pen. My flock is fairly young still. The olderst birds are only two and a half years old. Hope to keep breeding the old ones for as long as they are able and fertile.

I give eggs away to many of my neighbors. Those folks haven't complained. The one neighbor that might has teenage children that play drums. They also have chickens, goats, and a rooster. They don't dare complain! Hah! My husband and I work at keeping things tidy. In the winter I keep hay strewn in the barn yard and paths from the house to barn to keep mud down. I use deep litter in the barn and runs. I use shavings in the smaller breeding pens. Leaves, grass clippings, and peat moss are also used once in a while. All that goes into the garden when I clean up. I clean out the barn and pens every two or three months. Sometimes longer if it's dry like now.

I raised silkies back in 1990 through 1998. When my children were young. I quit chickens until just three years or so ago. Brought some silkie eggs home from a show in 2012 and hatched out whites. In Feb. 2013 I went to Karen Larson's Catdance farm and bought a white trio and two dozen hatching eggs. I'm hooked all over again.

My youngest daughter Faye and her champion white silkie pullet 'Gorgeous". 1996

 

[MumsyII]

Porcelain is Self Blue (lav/lav) x Buff and has been called Blue Cream, Self Cream or Porcelain. If and when I want to show the results of this breeding, I will enter them as Blue Cream if that is what the con-census for name is for the variety. Porcelain is what I call them for now.

The first Silkies of this variety I ever saw and fell in love with were Karen Larson's birds. It is what I saw in her pens that I would like to see in my pens.

This is the the ideal that I would like to achieve in color. Getting the type out of the birds I have will be the more difficult achievement for the first few generations. I don't have a lot to work with starting out with only two birds for my F1 pen. And only one of the pair came from Porcelain breeding. Eight chicks for my F1 is certainly a low number but it is what it is.


This is taken from my personal copy of the Bantam Standard of Perfection. An old copy, I know. This is non bearded and I raise Bearded. But that is the type I fell in love with when I saw Silkies for the first time in 1989.


This is the ideal color and type from Karen Larson breeding that I would like to achieve someday. It will take some hard work on my part to get something close to this. Lot's of studying and hard culling.