Processing Day Support Group ~ HELP us through the Emotions PLEASE!

[BCMaraniac]

I was thinking BC's point of experiment was the cost per lb of bird and whether caponizing was cost effective. If that is the case the only fair way to do it would be to butcher the uncaponized roo at the time you would normally butcher him (around crow generally) and the capon at the time of normal butcher for him (6-12 months). The point wasn't going to prove whether the older capon was bigger, of course it is, no need to test that out, he is older and neutered. The point in question was how much it costs to get him to eating age. The non capon will eat "x" amount of food producing "y" amount of meat costing "z" dollars per lb, the capon will eat the food for longer so does that equate to cheaper meat lb per $ spent on food or not?

You are correct, Kassaundra. I am considering the cost per pound of the meat. I am sure there will be some difference in cost per pound, and the capon is probably going to cost more.....but how much more? Some literature that I have read indicates that there is a "sweet spot" where the cost per pound is its most ideal, and after which the price per pound increases as feed conversion decreases. I think it is 8-9 months of age, but I will have to look at that again. I am also quite certain that there there is variability in the age based on breed, ie White Rock vs White Giant. If you read about the modern hybrid meat birds, they say the same thing.....after a certain age, feed conversion decreases, which has to be one of the main considerations in those who sell meat birds commercially from their farms.

If I wanted to determine the difference in feeding a rooster vs a capon exactly along with any weight difference, I would have to keep roosters TOGETHER until they were 9 months old to keep track of the feed.....YIKES!!! I don't think so!!!LOL.....not to mention all of that tough rooster meat to use.

Next spring I will be able to compare pure bred birds if I do this because I will have French Black Copper Marans and American Bresse.......or a cross between the two. As you may remember, many of my true capons are mixed between my DP layers and my Orpington rooster.

BTW, I am poulardizing my 5 pullets this week.....

 

[LBKS]

With most folks I've observed who don't get a good cut, it wasn't so much the knife but the decisiveness of the cut that was the issue.  Maybe bearing down more on your blade as you cut, while doing a quick slice?  It also seems to matter where you are cutting..some of the vids I saw, folks were cutting way down on the neck where the guard feathers(hackles)were and just doing a sawing motion as the feathers and the skin there are loose and easily moved with friction, but it doesn't make for the best cutting.

If you can feel for the jaw of the bird and cut just back of it and below it, you will be cutting in the right place and it has very little feathering there, plus the skin can be drawn taut by pulling down on the head a tad. 

I cut up close to the head, but the more I think about it the more I think tautness was one part of the problem - I probably should have pulled down further on the head because there was more slipping/pushing of the skin than there probably should have been. I'll try doing that and bearing down more with a faster slice next time. And I'll pick up some of the disposable scalpels too, that should make it pretty clear if it's my cut/location that is still the issue. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Kassaundra]

You are correct, Kassaundra. I am considering the cost per pound of the meat. I am sure there will be some difference in cost per pound, and the capon is probably going to cost more.....but how much more? Some literature that I have read indicates that there is a "sweet spot" where the cost per pound is its most ideal, and after which the price per pound increases as feed conversion decreases. I think it is 8-9 months of age, but I will have to look at that again. I am also quite certain that there there is variability in the age based on breed, ie White Rock vs White Giant. If you read about the modern hybrid meat birds, they say the same thing.....after a certain age, feed conversion decreases, which has to be one of the main considerations in those who sell meat birds commercially from their farms.

If I wanted to determine the difference in feeding a rooster vs a capon exactly along with any weight difference, I would have to keep roosters TOGETHER until they were 9 months old to keep track of the feed.....YIKES!!! I don't think so!!!LOL.....not to mention all of that tough rooster meat to use.

Next spring I will be able to compare pure bred birds if I do this because I will have French Black Copper Marans and American Bresse.......or a cross between the two. As you may remember, many of my true capons are mixed between my DP layers and my Orpington rooster.

BTW, I am poulardizing my 5 pullets this week.....

I'm interested to know how the poulardizing goes.

 

[wlhtx]

The meat on them was really good-- the breasts were a good size (I was thinking they wouldn't be since not the cornish cross).  The only thing without much meat was the lower flat portion of the wings (which is my favorite to eat as buffalo wings, my husband likes the little mini drumstick wings which were big).

This touches on something I've wondered about. So, the "chicken wings" you eat in a restaurant are usually the mini wings and drumsticks, right? So, I'm guessing those are just meat chickens that have been processed REALLY young? Does anyone know about what age they process them to get those mini wings and drumsticks? I'm curious...

 

[BCMaraniac]

This touches on something I've wondered about. So, the "chicken wings" you eat in a restaurant are usually the mini wings and drumsticks, right? So, I'm guessing those are just meat chickens that have been processed REALLY young? Does anyone know about what age they process them to get those mini wings and drumsticks? I'm curious...

My CX were frozen whole, but I raised Red Rangers from McMurray this summer, and it is recommended that they be raised to at least 12 weeks, so my roos were 14 weeks.....their wings and legs were really big.....the length of them along with the meat was substantial.

 

[wlhtx]

So, to get those little mini pieces, do you think they would be processed at - what - 5, 6 weeks?

 

[BCMaraniac]

So, to get those little mini pieces, do you think they would be processed at - what - 5, 6 weeks?

The Red Ranger just has big bones in its wings and legs, more so than the CX. I think whatever age you think is suitable for the rest of the bird should be suitable for wings. I don't know what breed of chicken is used for chicken wings, but I would imagine it is one of the hybrids. Have you ever noticed that the rotisserie chickens in the deli that are sold by the chicken are pretty much all he same size? There is a particular hybrid breed they use for those that has extremely uniform growth rate from bird to bird.....I just don't remember what it is, but it could be that it is such a breed as that.

You may just have to "feel up" the wings of your birds....

 

[jajeanpierre]

Bee, Thanks for that video! I am going to try that.

Yesterday, as you know, we got into a discussion about capons on the fermenting feed thread. I think with deboning I may do a controlled clinical trial, as they say in medicine, next year:

1. Hatch chicks.

2. Caponize some of the cockerels, and leave some intact.

I don't think we should be caponizing chickens. Going into the abdominal cavity of a non anesthetized animal??? That sounds pretty horrific, regardless of how they seem to cope. Apparent response or non response to pain is not a valid way to measure pain. I know that the avian veterinarian community does not ever castrate parrots. Male parrots, especially cockatoos, are a huge and dangerous problem in the parrot world. It just isn't done and there is a lot of money available in the parrot community to pay for it. There are a lot of things people do to animals that have been done for thousands of years--that doesn't mean it is right.

Just because an animal doesn't react does not mean it is not suffering horribly.

There will be losses from this procedure due to hemorrhage and infection that will wipe out any perceived gains in extra weight gain. There are all kinds of non invasive ways to deal with cockerels. Just by simply separating the sexes you can reduce or eliminate any testosterone poisoning problems.

I had a bunch of Silkie cockerel monsters. They were running around terrorizing every body--cockerels and pullets. As soon as I separated the cockerels from the pullets, there was peace. I have four almost 6.5 month old Ameraucana cockerels housed with three pullets. They get along fine. If they did become a problem, I could always slaughter the problem bird earlier.

 

[BCMaraniac]

I don't think we should be caponizing chickens. Going into the abdominal cavity of a non anesthetized animal??? That sounds pretty horrific, regardless of how they seem to cope. Apparent response or non response to pain is not a valid way to measure pain. I know that the avian veterinarian community does not ever castrate parrots. Male parrots, especially cockatoos, are a huge and dangerous problem in the parrot world. It just isn't done and there is a lot of money available in the parrot community to pay for it. There are a lot of things people do to animals that have been done for thousands of years--that doesn't mean it is right.

Just because an animal doesn't react does not mean it is not suffering horribly.

There will be losses from this procedure due to hemorrhage and infection that will wipe out any perceived gains in extra weight gain. There are all kinds of non invasive ways to deal with cockerels. Just by simply separating the sexes you can reduce or eliminate any testosterone poisoning problems.

I had a bunch of Silkie cockerel monsters. They were running around terrorizing every body--cockerels and pullets. As soon as I separated the cockerels from the pullets, there was peace. I have four almost 6.5 month old Ameraucana cockerels housed with three pullets. They get along fine. If they did become a problem, I could always slaughter the problem bird earlier.

The decision to caponize cockerels is a personal one, so there is no "we" in that. There is "You" and "I". Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Triple Willow]

  There are all kinds of non invasive ways to deal with cockerels.  Just by simply separating the sexes you can reduce or eliminate any testosterone poisoning problems.

I had a bunch of Silkie cockerel monsters.  They were running around terrorizing every body--cockerels and pullets.  As soon as I separated the cockerels from the pullets, there was peace.  I have four almost 6.5 month old Ameraucana cockerels housed with three pullets.  They get along fine.  If they did become a problem, I could always slaughter the problem bird earlier.

You must not have seen many roosters housed together. The fighting can be vicious and nonstop.