Quail on Deep Litter - Why it Works

[Quailgood]

Awesome article thanks! I currently have a suspended pen with wire mesh on the lower level and DL (mainly hay, sand, shavings and dirt) in the upper but I would like to convert te lower level so that is DL also. I do use the droppings beneath the pen for composting my veg garden so this will be really handy. Can anyone suggest what I could use to cover the wire mesh with a flat surface? I want my quail to be as comfortable as possible. Plus your DL "recipe" looks really good. Can't wait to try it!

 

[amandacv86]

I'm in the same boat, planning on lining the wire with a couple layers of cardboard and putting shavings and dirt on top of that. I hope it works!

 

[Quailsong]

Very interesting! I am learning a lot! I may experiment with something like this. After seeing my chicks so happy in the wood shavings in their brooder, I am hesitant to put them fully on wire when I move them outside. I am very limited in what "filling" I can use though. I live in Phoenix area and our soil is clay-based and hard, and we have very little shedding of leaves in the fall.

USAmma, that is tricky with living in a more desert-like area. I know in your area a lot of folks like to use rubber mulch, and that won't exactly work for a deep litter method.

You could still buy pine shavings from a pet store. And if you have neighbours or friends with trees, you could ask for leaves from them. I know citrus is a favourite tree there as it makes for some very sweet fruit. Not sure if the leaves would be too strong on their own, however.

You could also try contacting your local town's city/tree maintenance people & see if they'll let you sign up for or just pick up extra clippings/mulch from fallen trees or the ones they take down around power lines.

And of course, if you have a backyard of your own, you could try and plant some bushes in your area. Sage comes to mind, I think it's pretty drought hardy & the leaves can be used as a more 'sprinkling' in the litter. I use it often in the nestboxes to repel bugs like mites & mosquitoes (though my quail are good at catching them!). You can also grow chives in desert-like conditions & use the herb kinda like grass cuttings. If they eat it, it'll also help the quail internally.

It's more of a 'use what you got' mentality. In my area, I have a ton of leaves but not enough sun or warmth atm to grow a ton of herbs (which would be great in deep litter). For someone else, like a previous poster, they have a lot of moss which could work in deep litter too.

 

[amandacv86]

Has anyone ever kept a brooder using the deep litter method?

 

[Quailsong]

Has anyone ever kept a brooder using the deep litter method?

With my next hatch, I will be doing this very thing. I just started up keeping quail (first time) & chickens (again) after my recent summer move. When I hatch either, I'll be putting them on puppy pads the first days, then shavings, then introducing grass clumps (dirt too) & sprinkling in some old DL from the adult pen. This will slowly build up their immunities to my yard, as well as match their immunities with the adult quail.

Of course young chicks tend to poop a lot, the little stinkers that they are. And are more prone to knocking over food/water dishes. So I assume more diligence will be needed to maintain such a brooder pen, than in an adult pen where they're generally calmer.

As for the issues of heat lamps directly, it might make a bit more smell than a cooler DL floor. I imagine I will be doing the DL out in the garage. My DH would not be happy with a DL pen inside the house. He had a hard enough time dealing with 20+ quail on puppy pads in a bedroom..>.>

 

[amandacv86]

Thanks! I'm setting 63 cot and 97 button eggs tomorrow and even though I'm probably not going to have a 100% hatch, I want to keep them both in the same brooder. I'm hoping I can use deep litter and maybe spot clean by scooping some out and adding more in. I'd hate to have to clean it every day having to take all of the chicks out and find somewhere to place them. I will if needed though.

 

[quailswiss]

This sounds like a great idea. I'm very keen particularly to keep the smell down.

I have had my quail on wood shavings about 3in deep that I get from a local wood turner, but they are quite dusty. About 50% quite fine shavings, 50% dust, the proportions vary. The quail love dustbathing in them but there is a problem when the litter gets damp. I noticed that the wood dust was clinging to their underfeathers, and about that time they got mites too. I don't really want to buy wood shavings if I don't have to.

Also the shavings get damp and trampled down and after a week I need to change them anyway, it smells too much.

1/3rd of the pen is an upstairs enclosed sand bath, 1/3rd litter and 1/3rd of the downstairs I put wire in as the eggs were too difficult to fetch.

I have been storing the cut leaves from our cherry laurel to mulch with but they are quite damp, I'm not sure would the quail like them?

Now for the brooder, I have used pine shavings but I have had trouble with water spillage, then the litter got damp and started to smell. Now that they are 3 weeks old I feed them worms, they love them, but they aren't very good at scratching them up. I have put in a shallow container containing compost with worms but I need to stir it up if the worms are below the surface. And since I added the worms one of the chicks has runny droppings and they really stink. They are indoors for another week and this really is an issue.

Basically I would love a method where I can use what I have and not need to clear out quite that often but my family have a better sense of smell than me.

Any suggestions on how I could adapt the recipe to use what I've got?

- worm compost, quite damp
- leaf mould, half done, quite damp
- wood ash & charcoal
- 50% quite fine wood shavings, 50% wood dust
- used litter from hamster and guinea pigs (mix of straw, hay, wood chips and cellulose)
- I usually mulch mow but could catch the clippings for once.

My tray is 3 inch deep.

Really appreciate your input.

 

[Quailsong]

Quailswiss, thank you for your thoughts & questions. It's great to see more people getting on board with deep litter methods.

I agree you def need to improve a few things, unfortunately there are some potential issues I see with your idea. Please take my thoughts/suggestions with a grain of salt; ultimately you will figure out what is best for your quail & your needs. I also hope you don't mind a long reply..

Let's start with the shavings: A fine dust (of anything) can cause lung irritation issues. You'd def want to mix other things into it & keep it a touch moist so that the dust is kept down. Sometimes when my coop/pens are a bit dusty, I come in with a water bottle (occasionally with LABs included) and spritz the area a bit.

The second issue I see: what wood are the shavings gathered from? Pine is okay for critters but cedar can cause big irritation issues. If the wood has been treated, it may also cause issues. So it's up to you to ask your wood turner what they're using & if they can save you the cleaner, non-cedar shavings.

To anyone else reading, I generally don't recommend getting shavings from local hardware stores. Not only could it have treated/cedar wood in it, but may also have metal shavings.

On to the topic of worms. I assume they're red wigglers/earthworms. I'm personally nervous of the thought of keeping worms as food for any non-wild birds. I read somewhere (and now wish I had a bookmark to the article) that earthworms eat things which may sit in their digestive system & transfer to the birds - making them sick. I would not feed my birds red wigglers or any type of earthworm based on that alone. Instead, I'd use worm compost directly for your garden, as compost tea, or another thing that doesn't go near your quail directly (like, not in their deep litter).

(For your chick, I'd stop giving them earthworms & research symptoms to see what's up. In the meantime, I'd add in a sprinkling of cayenne pepper in their feed for the next few days. I'd also add a bit of yogurt into their diet afterwards (alternate days, or in place of the pepper) to give them beneficial bacteria to beat out the bad stuff.)

An alternate source of living (and wiggling) protein are mealworms, black soldier fly (BSF), or fly maggots. In that order of difficulty - easy to challenging. Mealworms are one of the BEST sources of nearly free protein for chickens & quail. The only issue I have with them is I'm allergic to them. I gained this allergy from the aquarium trade - my partner used to keep aquatic frogs & fed them bloodworms (midge fly larvae). Their freeze-dried dust circulated into the air via the water filter & gave me a terrible reaction that lasted over a month, even after we got rid of the frogs & cycled out the aquarium completely. As they're related to mealworms, I gained an allergy to them as well when before I had no issue. Boo.

That aside, they are very easy to keep if you are able to tolerate them. I would recommend farming them in a well ventilated area (ie, outside) or garage. You can do a 3-drawer system or one big plastic tub, adding spent grains to feed them. Def search youtube for "DIY Mealworm Farming" - you'll see plenty of herp (reptile,etc) keepers who are more than happy to share their farming methods.

In the Spring, I plan to try a culture of BSF, which are apparently easy to gather & culture if you live just about anywhere in North America. I'm not sure of overseas, but I'm sure they're there as well. There are DIY youtube vids which basically set it up so that the larvae march right into a collection bag. Pretty cool; soldier flies marching.

Then there's the house fly maggot option. They're a bit trickier to culture & I don't recommend it unless you have a far corner of your backyard which you don't mind as a swarming ground for flies & lingering smells of a rotten corpse. It's however a great way to keep the local fly problem down - since you give the larvae to your birds, rather than have them mature & go back out into nature.

Now let's figure out your deep litter composition. Deep litter is like healthy compost or soil; it has texture. Using just fine wood shavings is like mixing fine clay; when it's wet, it's slop, when it's dry it's going to be a hard block. You need to keep it broken up with something else, like wood chips, grass clippings, etc.

The leaves that you have available sound good (as cherry) but a bit too damp. Older, moist leaves may also harbour mites. You might be able to get away with mixing them in the dry wood shavings before you put them in the DL - letting the shavings absorb some of the moisture first. I would recommend for sure you keep your mowed grass & add it to your deep litter, but sparingly as too much will mould (like the leaves).

If you have a long stretch of patio, a driveway, or sidewalk - mow on a dry day when there's no rain in the immediate forecast (ie, the next 2 days are clear). Spread your clippings (or leaves) as thinly as you can with the space you have available. Every afternoon, shake the clippings about by raking them up & spreading on the sidewalk again, or using a fork to turn them. You want it so they're dry top & bottom. Once they're dry, you can bag them long-term & store them somewhere that they won't get wet [like a garage]. You can also put them in a 5g bucket outside if you seal the lid tight. If they're not dry they will mould (usually white) & if packed too tightly will become anaerobic.

As for spent hamster/critter shavings: I personally wouldn't do it. I would rather compost this stuff to the worm bin. I cannot tell you if they're safe, but I can say that if your critters pick up anything, that it may be transferable to the birds. You'd also have to consider the thought that your eggs (that you'll be eating) may be sitting directly on rodent feces. At the very least, it's going to be adding stink (ammonia/droppings) into what would have been a fresh deep litter to start with. You also say straw is in their mix, I wouldn't use straw in deep litter. It has a hollow core which mites could use to harbour in.

Your Possible Mix - If I were to use what you had, I would mix my deep litter this way:

- 5 parts Wood Shavings/Dust (from your wood-turner)
- 5 parts Dry Grass Clippings
- 5 parts Dry Leaf Mould or 2 parts Damp Leaf Mould
- 1 part Wood Ash & fine charcoal (take out chunks bigger than a quarter)

Make your first mixture in something like a 5gal drum or a wheelbarrow. Stir it together & let it sit a day. Stir up again & check for mites from the leaves, dampness & smell. If you don't see any mites, then there's enough ash, if you see some then you may need to increase the ash a bit more.

3 inches is an alright depth for quail, so do what you're already doing there.

I would also add in:

- Handful of crushed egg shells or oyster shell every 4sq' of pen size. This will encourage the quail to mix up the compost.
- Handful of scratch (seeds) to encourage the quail to turn the deep litter further. Add this on top, after you put in the litter.
- Any spent herbs or flower heads you have from your garden (so long as it's okay for birds in general).
- A spritz of LABs to start up with - introducing beneficial bacteria. 1tbsp of yogurt/kefir mixed in 1c warm water.

Your possible maintenance routine:

Daily:

- Use a hand rake & mess up the litter every morning/night as needed. Basically only if it looks flat/crushed or wood dust is clumping. If they're turning it on their own, you can skip this.
- Feel the litter for dampness. If it's too damp, more wood shavings are needed. Sprinkle some in, rake it up a bit & mark it down on your mixture list to add more next time.

Weekly:

- Use your hand rake to mess up the litter, regardless of how well it looks. Once you do that:
- Check deep litter for mites & check birds as well - under their feathers.
- Check for dampness.
- Check for clumping of wood dust. If so, add more grass next mix.
- If deep litter is dry, spritz with LABs (refresh every time) to keep dust down & make sure beneficial bacteria is present.
- Toss in some new scratch/seeds.

Eventually you'll figure out how much of what you need, depending on what's available, what's too damp/dry and what your current climate is like (ie, more humidity if it's raining a lot).

Deep litter that is ready to move to the garden/compost is fairly dark, somewhat decomposed & smells closer to rich earth. If it stinks like ammonia or mushrooms, it's either well past cleaning stage or your litter ratio/mixture is off. A good litter may even smell really good (sweet), and clean enough that you could dig your hand through it without it getting slimy. I confess, sometimes when I get quail poop on my hand while working I'll pick up some DL shavings to wipe it off..of course I do wash my hands when I'm done!

Did I get everything, Quailswiss? Please let me know how this turns out, any issues you may run into, and/or anything that turned out super well.^^

 

[amandacv86]

I've never tried deep litter above ground before. Here's my first try in a free rabbit hutch I got yesterday. They were temporarily in a smaller cage on wire, which looked so uncomfortable! I'm keeping them because they're a new color and want to house them with the chicks I'm hatching soon to get more bloodlines. Found out they're roosters after I got home and don't want to put them in my aviary because that would be 50/50 roos/hens.

Before Quail:



After:



The one on the right is in mid scratch lol. They loved it! Especially love hiding under the hay.

 

[Quailsong]

Amanda, that's a neat feather colouration & a great start to deep litter!

It does look a bit 'airy', however. A lot of loose hay/grass might not be able to absorb feces as quickly - you can easily amend that with some wood shavings or broken/cut leaves (rake & run over with your bagged lawnmower).

Keep it up though. Would love to see how these ones do a week or month from now!