Raising and training a Livestock Guardian dog

[maxharl]

We live in upper Michigan on a 30 acre farm that is zoned agricultural. Four years ago we purchased two Great Pyrenees to protect our chickens and horses after our neighbors dogs were chasing our horses and killed 10 of our chickens. Later a raccoon killed 16 chickens in their chicken house over a two week period. After we bought out GP we have had no losses. Now our neighbor( ironically the one who owns the murderous dogs! )Has complained of our dogs keeping her up at night! The police has been here and we are having to lock them up in the barn at night. Wondering if anyone has had this problem and the best way to handle this situation.

 

[Wasson6Pack]

I am considering getting a Catahoula mix for our dog. I really want the female, but my husband thinks the make may be better to start with.

How exactly do you train them? I understand running the property line and 'leave it' to the chickens and our pigs, but what else is helpful? The obvious, sit, stay. Are most of yours outside only? Work dog only or work and pet?

 

[ShellR]

This is my first posting! Don't even own a Facebook account, but after reading the entire thread I realized you guys are great people and I can't wait to talk to you all.

What made me decide to post right away is the last post that mentioned getting a Catahoula, I don't have much experience yet with LGD's, but interested in them for about a year, it is now a top priority after our friends' Catahoula eviscerated our favorite laying hen today.

She was a bantam golden laced Cochin, sweetest girl ever and deserved much better than that dang dog.

They are awful dog owners and shouldn't own a breed like that, much less in a townhome in the city, but seeing him tear after her and then go roll in her feathers when we finally got her away, I won't trust that breed again.

 

[Wasson6Pack]

We did am enormous amount of research before we got a dog. First I will say that ours is from a shelter and not a pure breed, but we liked the Catahoula breed. Secondly, we got him about 3 months old and have had him for about 2 months. In that time, so far, if we let him run amuck, he likes to eat dead chickens from the compost pile. He has not ever gone after a live chicken of ours. Although we keep him on a leash and ice read no never trust any dog under 1 year alone with you're chickens, we introduce him to our birds and say MINE, LEAVE IT and he always has. Our Turkeys roam free and have come within striking range and he is content to lay there. Just like the crap other beds get for being adhesive just because of the breed, one naughty dog does not a bad breed make.
Just wanted to add in about that breed, I love our guy and he will make a fine chore dog in time, but he is growing up with animals too.

 

[phoebelouiseism]

I just found this site and was reading your posts wondering how to get my dog to guard poultry. I just got an Anatolian Shepherd for the very same reason. The last 3 chickens I lost was the final straw for me and decided I had to have a guard dog. But I have never had one and am learning as is she. My gal is just over 2 months old and after reading some of the comments I think I am starting out right but feel like I could be doing better or more. I do work with her about 3 times a day, mostly involving walks as far as I currently wish her to go on my 30 ac. such as to the ends of the driveway and back and NEVER going into the road. I also try to go when there are tractors or cars around so she learns to ignore them as they go by. Basic commands are also something we are working on. My biggest concern though is getting her to bond with poultry, or at least consider them her charges. They are nothing like goats or sheep for cuddling or being playful. In fact, the chickens are not overly fond of her presence and she is a puppy, full of play! I have actually allowed her to be with the chickens most of the time but am changing my mind on that because the more comfortable she is here, the more gregarious she becomes and that is not translating well with the chickens. She is in the large run I have for the birds so she can move about freely within the confines. When I am around or if I hear her being too rambunctious I immediately scold her. I have also worked with her on a leash for basic commands and to walk around the chickens. I also gave her a couple of toys to play with so she doesn't get too bored when inside the coop. We walk the perimeter of the run before the chickens are let out, we walk the driveway back and forth twice a day end to end (my driveway is a semicircle with both ends connecting to the road). Mostly I am concentrating on establishing routines with her and basic commands. I have only had her a couple of weeks. Thanks in advance for any pointers/corrections.

 

[hedylaymore]

I had a wonderful Great Pyrenees. He came from farm stock and I got him as a small puppy. At the time, we didn't have any livestock so we raised him to be a therapy dog. The first year was hard. We went to three sets of obedience classes because I was determined to do it right. Had to put a Gentle Leader head halter on him because he was strong and was pulling me down. I highly recommend these humane devices. Bruno was never punished, trained only with positive rewards, but we let him know who was boss and kept him under firm control. This is an independent, strong breed, and will try to be the boss. You have to be a strong pack leader from day one. He had a big doghouse under a shade tree inside a secure fence, and he also had controlled access to part of our house. Believe it or not, these heavy dogs will put dents in hardwood floors. You will also find tufts of white fur everywhere. (Don't buy a black wool coat.)

He was great with my grandchildren; they could climb all over him, check his teeth, listen to his heart with toy stethoscopes, etc. I stumbled, fell, and hit my head (knocked me out) on a busy street, dropped his leash, and he stood right there until help arrived. I think the big white dog probably saved me from being run over.

However, under normal circumstances if he ever got loose he wandered far and wide. These dogs are perimeter dogs and think the whole world is their assignment. They need a secure fence, not an invisible one. They will travel if they get loose. Walk him in the neighborhood (and really all over town) so people will recognize him. Have him chipped and put a secure collar on him with full identification. Once Bruno got out of our gate and someone a half mile away recognized him and called us. We were frantic. It was Halloween, and he had found children in a neighborhood and was trick or treating with them. He always loved children.

About all that hair: Since Bruno was a therapy dog (with TD Inc.); I had him groomed and defurminated every six weeks. He still shed, but defurmination kept it under control. From the time I got him, I boarded him from time to time with the same kennel where I had him groomed. He grew to love the people there and didn't mind staying with them.

These dogs are expensive to take care of. You have to find a groomer who can deal with a big dog with tons of hair. Plus the monthly meds are expensive, since they are prescribed according to weight. I also had health insurance for him, since these dogs are rather fragile. He had cruciate ligament surgery when he was 11 months old, and by the time he died (age 8), his hind legs were so bad he couldn't stand on his own.

All that being said, I would not take anything for my journey with Bruno. This is a very special breed, very loving when treated kindly. We visited nursing homes, hospitals, parks, schools, and took part in our Christmas parade for several years. He was calm and protective. He seldom barked, but when he did, we knew it was for a reason.

Gee, I went on this site because I recently acquired chickens and would like to have a chicken guardian dog. Maybe I need another Pyr. Couldn't go wrong there.

 

[kyexotics]

In October we got a Pyr puppy and had him to the point he could run around all night, while the birds were locked up and was on a chain during day...As he grew FAST he realize the 4' fence was just a stumbling block and bounded it with lil to no effort...So we added 2 more feet, he accepted the challenged and showed us it's not the height, he can climb...So we then we tried a training collar...

You can beep him, vibrate or shock him...We found beeping and a few low setting vibrations, "distracting", was enough to keep him from going in open duck coops and taking eggs...When it came to the fence, we were a little stronger, we used the highest vibration setting, which he hated and tried to give him the impression the fence was a "vibrator" now...everytime he touched it "bzzzz"...He learned quick...Only had to shock him a couple of times and that was when he got too excited and went UNDER the fence!...He won't do that anymore either...So, we've waited and waited to see if it was a series of flukes, or has he learned...Over the last few weeks we've let him run during the day as we did all of this but on chain at night when we couldn't monitor and control the behavior...Last night we went back to letting him run all night and when I woke up this morning, there he was, sitting inside fence, tail wagging as happy to see me as I was to see him!...We consider him as cured as he can be, with ongoing training of course, but we finally feel we can let him run all day and that was our goal...Then today, he pinned a rooster that he was playing with that got out of it's run to a fence and soaked him, no bites, just rough licking and such...Bird is fine and again, proved to us(as he has since we've had him), if he wanted to eat chicken, he could be eating chicken, he doesn't want to...Oh, something else i always do is when walking around yard with him is when we come in contact with ducks or chickens is to say "MY DUCKS": or "MY CHICKENS", then I let him play with them as they do with him...They love chasing him up and down the fences pecking his nose when they can...He rolls against fence and speeds around yard as they make him silly! That's our story...

 

[tiffanyblitz]

Can we talk about the barking?

I think we need a lgd (after losing 4 chickens to a neighbor dog)... but my only experience with them was staying with a friend. Both her dog (pyr/as) and her neighbor's dogs (they were breeding pyr) barked. All. The. Time!

Is that really normal?? I need some sleep, too...

 

[kyexotics]

Can we talk about the barking?

I think we need a lgd (after losing 4 chickens to a neighbor dog)... but my only experience with them was staying with a friend. Both her dog (pyr/as) and her neighbor's dogs (they were breeding pyr) barked. All. The. Time!

Is that really normal?? I need some sleep, too...

Ours doesn't bark without a reason and that reason is always what he's there for...But I'd wouldn't call him a barker, he doesn't bark when we get home or at strangers, only at animals that don't live in his fenced area...

I'll add we went with 6' fences, not even a sweat for the puppy, up and over without hesitation...We've even been feeding him as much as he will eat to try and weigh him down, he hasn't fallen for it and stays in flying shape! LOL I honestly don't care, he only does it to chase a predator, he always comes back and I think it's cool to see him ripping thru the woods, he just looks good! His only fault is he knows what chickens belong in what coops and when one escapes, which we don't mind, he herds them back to their proper coop, it's cute to watch...Today he went too far and pinned an escapee, a white silkie, to the ground, actually in a puddle of mud LOL, until the Mrs rescued it...He wasn't hurting it and she was fine, just muddy, but that's not what we want him doing...He's a puppy, still learning and thankfully really likes the flock he oversees, and hasn't hurt a feather on a bird yet!

What's funny is, he oversees about 100 of our personal birds yet he's the only one flying over the fence!

 

[n8ivetxn]

Hi Tiffany,

I'm concerned about the barking too.... I recently bought a 10 week old pup, a female, she's 3/4 Akbash and 1/4 Maremma.... Although I live in the sticks, I do have neighbors and I'm sensitive to noise myself... From what I've read, some breeds have more bark than others and I think Pyrs tend to be near the top of the list.

I raise a rare breed of sheep, registered Barbados Blackbelly (not to be confused with Barbado or American Blackbelly). Recently, we set out some game cams and I was mortified at what showed up - a veritable pit of piranha swimming around the fence!

So, I brought the pup home last Wednesday night and had to put her in the mud room while I fed and unloaded some ewes...she started howling and barking and clawing at the door. It took less than 5 minutes and there was a choir of coyotes parked just outside the back fence-line, howling in response to her frustrations

That tells me the coyotes live very close to my place, since it took such a short time for them to show up...

I know nothing about training one of these pups and there are almost no resources available. She has good manners with the sheep: sits or lays down when they approach, wagging the tail, licking their faces or tails (whichever end she's at! LOL), she has little or no chase in her... all the right things so far. She's even alright with my lonely hen....

So, left to my own devices, we practice the roll-over when I approach, sit, and we're working on leash manners... we walk around the perimeter of the 8 acre pasture (we have 28 acres) a couple times daily, occasionally visit the neighbors and socialize with their dogs (some may disagree with those things). At night she's been a hairy Houdini

getting out every night - no matter what I do, so I'm crating her at night, where she can see and visit with her flock. I'm going to run hot-wire around the front part of the pasture in a couple of days and see if that will teach her to stay with the flock.

How long does it take for a LGD pup to bond to a flock? I know she's young, but I just want to know at what point do I say, "well, she's just not interested in guarding?"