Reforming an aggressive rooster (project)

[LaurenRitz]

Hello,

I read this thread with interest last night. How is it going now with your rooster?

No problems. I still stay wary, don't get down on his level when he's close, and keep an eye on him. But as mentioned before, he hasn't attacked me since the beginning of April. With no changes. I haven't continued to update.

When I walk through the flock he ducks out of my way. He still growls if he didn't see me coming. And I try not to let them out if I know people are coming.

 

[TropicalChickies]

No problems. I still stay wary, don't get down on his level when he's close, and keep an eye on him. But as mentioned before, he hasn't attacked me since the beginning of Appril. With no changes. I haven't continued to update.

Great, thanks for replying. I'm glad your efforts were to good effect!

 

[LaurenRitz]

I spoke too soon. I got careless. Went out there unarmored at the wrong time of day, stared him straight in the face, put my head down, and capped it all by walking around him.

I walked into him until he turned away, but I can tell there will be a repeat. Because I did that all wrong too, waiting for him to move first, letting him set the "pace."

I've known for a few days that he was recovering his confidence (or forgetting the last lesson) but I got careless anyway.

I really think I have changed my own behavior as much as I can. I know his triggers and how to avoid setting him off. But he has an established pattern of behavior that's not going to change just because I change.

I think it's time for the training portion to begin, but I'm hesitant. Partially because of the time and effort required, partially because I have never trained a rooster before, but mostly because I know the end result if I fail.

But not starting would be an automatic fail. I need to remember that.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Just think of this post as brainstorming, and skip past it if not interested.

I have no place to isolate him for training, so this will almost have to be in his place--the coop, or the run. I'll need to figure out a way to isolate him from his girls, which is NOT going to make him happy. The run is secure enough, I can keep him out there for a few days. I also have an isolation pen, but it's pretty small. But if he gets treats for going in, it might work.

The Jersey Giant cockerell can take care of the girls, and

Hm. The older rooster has been spending less and less time with the flock, leaving guarding and watching to the younger roo. Something to think about. I wish I could build that second coop, but I can't yet.

So somehow isolate him. Or would it be better to give him a safe space where he can go if he's upset?

Probably not. Retreat is a chicken default.

So, isolation during the initial stages of training. I need to make sure there are no patterns in dress or time of day.

At the same time I don't want to train him out of his normal chicken behavior. He needs that to take care of his ladies. But he has to respect me and my position, my space.

Desensitization doesn't seem to be a reasonable goal, but first respect and then teach him that I am not an enemy or a rival.

 

[LaurenRitz]

I'm finding that there's an emotional aspect to the situation as well. He's calmed down again and I'm working out the best way to train him, but I find I resent him at the same time. I resent what feels like being held hostage by a bird.

I free range them all day, which means I need to be armored whenever I go outside. I find myself changing plans so as not to upset the silly birds. Eliminating or avoiding tasks that are going to make noise, etc.

This kind of process (and based on my experience so far I think it is very possible to succeed) is best done by someone with an emotional investment in success.

Training when there's no investment in success is going to be much more difficult.

I don't have that.

 

[LaurenRitz]

I had an odd thought. And people who don't like odds are just going to have to deal. That's the way my brain works.

I see a lot of discussion over aggressive roosters, and most people are in the cull-first camp. In my opinion this is self-defeating, since by culling any rooster that shows signs of aggression you're eliminating the instincts that allow him to defend himself and his ladies. I won't go into the long term genetic stuff, there's just not enough room for that discussion.

The next group is the "Reforming an aggressive rooster may be possible but I don't know how," group, and as I see it those are the primary group who will be reading this.

The 3rd, group, of course, is those who know you can reform an aggressive rooster, have seen it done or done it themselves.

In my research I have seen documented cases of rescued fighting roosters that have been taught to have no aggression toward other birds. And the training is pretty straightforward, if time and labor intensive. Scientists have been able to train single celled animals all the way up, so I think "It can't be done" can be safely eliminated.

What I don't see is any discussion about what "reform" actually means. And reform probably is the wrong word, but we'll go with it in this instance.

The definitions of success in this kind of training appear to range from "I want a lap rooster" to "I'm OK with beating him back with a stick," and everything in between.

I am looking at essentially a wild animal, whose instinct is to fight and protect. I don't want to train him out of wanting to protect his family. I do want him to stop seeing me as a threat.

So what I am asking here is what would be your definition of success? If you decided, for whatever reason, that trying to train an aggressive rooster was worth the time and effort it takes, what would success look like?

 

[SourRoses]

Defense of the flock and aggression towards humans don't seem to share the same genes.
I think aggression towards humans is a result of lower intelligence causing them to misidentify threats. Anecdotally, I have seen a connection between cockerels who are rough with pullets/hens and giving people the stink eye (which is as far as cockerels get here before culling).
My very sweetest rooster, the one who never tries to force pullets to mate (so I keep all the juveniles with his flock), never looks amiss at people, is also the best most proven defender of his flock. Right now, he's out there standing guard over some chicks with the mama.
I believe it's because he's smart that he's able to be selective about where to direct his aggression.

I'd like to draw a parallel to horses.
As another prey species that typically think based on fear stimulus and absence. Except in the presence of copious testosterone, with stallions ranking up among the animals with very high levels.
Anyone who's handled many horses has a healthy respect for stallions. They are far, far more likely to be aggressive, or just belligerent. Especially in the presence of mares. Riders learn to give them berth. Students and kids are warned to stay away.
But you know what interesting pair I found myself trail riding with when I was a teen? A 6-year-old girl riding her father's show stallion. He didn't take much to control. The fact the rest of us were on mares is proof. Most horse people would think her father negligent. But I have never seen a kid have an easier time riding, he really took care of her. He was also an active breeding stallion, meaning he was covering mares when clients were available. El Chino was mildly famous for the at-liberty "dances" he did with the father and a flamenco dancer.
Although he makes for a great example, most stallions of his breed are also fairly easy to handle. What's the difference? Well, Paso Finos are widely considered to be more intelligent than most horses.
Just as happy to fight other stallions, just as fertile, but far less belligerent. Although I have a back injury stemming from one who was not so tractable, and I always thought that one a result of bad breeding for multiple reasons.
It's hard to prove, but a theory that makes sense across multiple species.

 

[LaurenRitz]

Defense of the flock and aggression towards humans don't seem to share the same genes.
I think aggression towards humans is a result of lower intelligence causing them to misidentify threats. Anecdotally, I have seen a connection between cockerels who are rough with pullets/hens and giving people the stink eye (which is as far as cockerels get here before culling).
My very sweetest rooster, the one who never tries to force pullets to mate (so I keep all the juveniles with his flock), never looks amiss at people, is also the best most proven defender of his flock. Right now, he's out there standing guard over some chicks with the mama.
I believe it's because he's smart that he's able to be selective about where to direct his aggression.

I see your point. I would also say (compressing what could turn into a 20 page rant) that genetics is complicated. Genes are often linked, cross linked, they turn each other off and on in what seems random combinations. By selecting for one thing, you're almost certainly selecting for other traits that are on linked genes.

I think intelligence is definitely linked to human aggression. I just hesitate to think that it's the only thing affecting it, or that increasing intelligence might affect other things we don't really understand.

 

[Geena]

In my research I have seen documented cases of rescued fighting roosters that have been taught to have no aggression toward other birds.

I wouldn't have thought that was possible, do you have any links?

Defense of the flock and aggression towards humans don't seem to share the same genes.

IME there is no correlation between the two. In dogs human aggression, dog aggression and aggressively protecting territory are three distinct and separate behaviors.

I think aggression towards humans is a result of lower intelligence causing them to misidentify threats.

I believe so too, or at least an elevated level of testosterone that causes them override their common sense. Repeatedly attacking something that is not a threat only puts themselves and their hens in harms way.

I resent what feels like being held hostage by a bird.

Yep, I would imagine that's why most people just end up culling them.

 

[LaurenRitz]

I wouldn't have thought that was possible, do you have any links?

I don't. I haven't been keeping records as I do this research, and it was some time ago. Look up rooster rescue and rooster rehabilitation.

The process is very simple. They keep the rooster caged where he can see the other birds but not interact. When the rooster calms down they let him out fully supervised. The instant he starts anything, he goes back in the cage. They do this multiple times per day until he's proven he can handle being free.