Results from First Year with Deep Litter Method

[Brucepierce]

Thanks Bee...
Do I use the ash for dust bathing...did I read that somewhere? Or am I just trying to find a use for all this ash.

 

[Beekissed]

Yes, you can mix it in with their regular dusting spots if you have a problem with mites, lice, etc. that keeps recurring in your flock. If not, then it's not really necessary. I keep an ash pile handy in case they want to pick charcoal and eat it. It makes a great dewormer that they can help themselves to free choice. You can also place it in the bottom of the nest boxes to discourage any mites that may want to hide out.

My sheep loved having a charred log in the winter pen and would gnaw on it like they really needed. I've also seen wild birds dipping into the ash pile for a bite.

 

[Daisy8s]

Daisy8s, I read your account of the deep litter method with considerable interest. I'm particularly intrigued by the fact that your coop has a dirt floor and was built on an old gravel pile, because I am trying to figure out what to do with my own dirt-floor coop. I want to try the deep litter method, but our "coop" is actually a shed barn (14' X 36') with several inches of pea gravel on the dirt (clay) floor. I'm concerned that if I try to do deep litter on top of that gravel, I'll end up with gravel all through the litter and that would be a real nuisance. But it sounds like you managed quite well. What kind of gravel was in the pile that your coop was built on? Maybe my problem is that pea gravel is so darned light and easy to stir up. I am thinking that I may have to just remove it and replace it with sand.

Second question: We have a much higher square footage per bird in the barn; it varies from 9 to 13 square feet per bird. I don't know if our chickens will turn over the litter enough for it to fluff up and compost nicely. What do you think, based on your experiences?

Third question: We do get some water in the coop from the surrounding slope. I'm going to work on improving our drainage and runoff diversion, but it may still get damp around the edges of the walls. How well does the deep litter method work when there's dampness to contend with? In the past when we tried a version of deep litter, we used straw, which got matted and very smelly when wet. The wet areas never did compost well, but areas that were only damp actually composted beautifully. I'm trying to figure out where the balance lies in terms of how much damp is workable and how much is too much. I also wonder whether I should just ixnay the straw and go to wood shavings or chips, or maybe a mix of some straw and a lot of shavings/chips.

Thank you, and I'd appreciate any opinions or suggestions!

Hi, I just saw this post with the questions--so sorry for my late response.

1. Gravel. I think if you have some water coming in from outdoors you should definitely keep the gravel there. The gravel under my coop was the kind used to make a driveway (previous owners dumped their extra) so it's pretty big rocks, not pea gravel as I understand it. But, I really don't think the gravel would get stirred up if you make a deep enough base on top of it. I'd start with something thick and heavy like wood chips or even a layer of soil--put down 3-4 inches of this and I think the gravel will be there to help with drainage but not get up into your litter.

2. Big area to fluff. I intentionally dump the kitchen scraps right under the roosts where the manure accumulation is the heaviest. This is the place where I most want them turning the litter because the action turns under the fresh (and smelliest) manure. It's great that you have a large square footage percentage per bird! But, even with this there will probably be some favorite spots where they poop the most so you can target the scratch/scraps to those areas where the fluffing is most needed and then go over other areas occasionally with a pitchfork yourself as needed.

3. Straw. Everything I've heard and experienced says straw is the absolute worst item to use in a chicken coop. What works best are small bits of lightweight items that the chickens can fluff easily. I use my own yard scraps exclusively. I dry and then bag up grass clippings and leaves. Right now I have seven of those huge construction site garbage bags full of grass and leaves to head into the winter. It's lovely stuff to use first, because it's free! Second, because it makes the coop smell nice when I drop it in, and third, because it's a good "brown" to add to the "green" of manure and kitchen scraps to enable composting to occur.

In summary, if I were in your situation I'd be going for depth. The higher you build up the bedding the farther away from dampness your birds will be. I like that my birds have a deep mat of composting bedding underneath them in the miserable cold of February. Good luck!

 

[Barrdwing]

Thank you so much for your input, Daisy8s! I am feeling a heck of a lot more "can-do" about this deep litter project now.

It's ironic that the weather has recently warmed up considerably: I'm all fired up to place the litter, and today was in the seventies. Well, all of the necessary parts are now in place. I've laid in a stock of wood shavings plus two bales of straw (maybe straw mixed into twice as much shavings won't be as much of a disaster; goodness knows the chickens EAT whatever I put down, and straw is less scary in that regard). One side of the barn has a few inches of shavings in place, which the birds are having fun with. It is very nice to have something to sop up the manure and the smell has improved considerably.

I do wish we had more trees, or that hubby would do like he keeps saying he'll do, and get the dratted lawnmower fixed. We have no lawn as such, just a lovely lot of weeds that could at least act as chopped bedding. But oh well--that's the big secret of keeping chickens: they constantly inspire bigger and better projects "for the sake of the girls," and you end up planting trees and grass and a giant vegetable garden and turning an expanse of "nothin'-much" into a pretty little yard!

 

[Daisy8s]

Barrdwing, I'm glad you're feeling good about the deep litter method. I really love all the perks of doing it.

One thing...you commented on the weather and I wanted to clarify that I use deep litter in my coop all year round. It is at it's deepest in March right before I clean most of it out in early April to put on the garden before planting. But, even when I clean it out I never remove all of it as you want to leave behind the organisms that make composting happen. So, in April after the clean out it is down to about 3-4 inches and then slowly begins building again till a year later it's up to 24 inches in some places.

I'm also curious as to why you want to use straw. Is this something you already have access to? If not and you're buying bales I'd suggest buying hay. Hay will break down and compost much better and also be easier for the birds to turn under while scratching. I really think you'll still have increased smell if you use straw. I had some that I used in my nesting boxes but my habit is to dump out any poop-covered nesting box material into the main coop and even a few handfuls of straw increased the smell in the coop because it holds the manure up instead of allowing it to be turned under to compost.

Another thought is to get lawn clippings from neighbors. I asked an older gentlemen neighbor of mine if my boys and i could rake his leaves and he was thrilled! Some garbage removal places also store the lawn clippings they pick up and let people come to get them for free. Of course you do want to dry everything completely before putting it in storage. You do not want any mold in their bedding.

Good luck on your new endeavor, though!

 

[Barrdwing]

Well, there are a handful of reasons I want to use some straw (definitely not all straw!). In the past when we had straw composting in the chicken barn, it produced the most beautiful fine-textured soil. I agree that when used as the sole bedding, it wanted to mat up and create a nasty cap that trapped moisture against the clay and made a perfect growth zone for unbelievably smelly bacteria. So it has to be combined with something like shavings that are easier to turn. I also like the way it breaks down so quickly; I hope it might help jump-start the composting process. The chickens love to eat it, and I'd rather have them eating straw than shavings. And it works a lot better in our nest boxes than shavings do: the hens have a terrible habit of burying the eggs in the shavings! I figure that a litter ratio of no more than one part straw to two parts shavings will do to start out with, and I'll fiddle around with it from there.

I think that some variety to the litter will be beneficial--both a variety of textures and a variety of green versus dry. Hay is something I might try out, certainly; I've toyed with the notion of using hay during the summer when we have no greenery to speak of. And if any of the neighbors had lawns, I'd be after their clippings! Unfortunately our area is quite dry and often windy; lawns do not do well. I'm hoping to put in some native bunch grasses and get trimmings off of those now and then. And the cottonwoods are getting ready to drop their leaves, which I could scavenge. Does anybody know if cottonwood leaves are toxic to chickens?

 

[pretendfarmer]

This is a very interesting thread. My situation is a little different as well as my experience. I live in Portland, OR, where we have steady rain for months on end. I have 4 hens. My hen house is elevated, with a wood/vinyl floor. I use straw on the floor and in the nesting boxes and sprinkle everything occasionally with food grade DE. I remove the straw from under the roost once a week and add it to my compost pile. That works pretty well.

My run is about 4x15, with about 4x6 covered, and the rest open to the elements. It is all enclosed in wire mesh, including the top. The uncovered portion of the run gets pretty muddy in the winter, even with good drainage, so I have been experimenting with how to keep the mud down. I started by just spreading straw on the ground. This worked pretty well until the real heavy rains came. I added grass trimmings from the last couple of mows of the season, and then threw in leaves as I generated them raking the lawn. After a couple of weeks, what I had was a soggy mat of muddy organic material that was starting to stink like a poorly aerated compost pile. Leaves really don't have a chance to dry out and get crunchy here. They fall when the rains start. I scooped everything out and spread it around my garden, lightly turned under the dirt in the run when we had a couple of dry days, and threw a very thin layer of straw down along with a few leaves-not near as thick as before.

Any suggestions? I like the idea of deep litter and the manure getting turned in with the organics to form a nice compost, but it is just too wet for that, and I don't have the funds right now to put a cover over the entire run.

 

[Beekissed]

In your run I'd use bark mulch if you can get it and any pine needle mulch would work as well. As much as possible if you can mimic the forest floor in your area, it will do well...you just have to layer it in and give it time to start melding with and creating a cap on your run. In the coop, I'd use pine shavings and leaves, with a scoop or so of dry soil or even commercial mulch. Straw or hay is not a good idea in a humid climate....just gets gummy and moldy. I'd go for drier materials in the coop and chunkier material in the run.

 

[Daisy8s]

Deep Litter Usage Updated: DE was a huge mistake

In the spring of 2012 I wrote the original post to rave about the great compost I made in my chicken coop by employing the deep litter method. Now it's the spring of 2013, my second year with deep litter, and I'm giving an update on an important lesson I learned.

The DE Mistake
Last year, after the clean out I intentionally left a few inches of old bedding to keep the good organisms that facilitate composting. But then, a few weeks later I made a fatal mistake. I had purchased Diametaceous Earth (DE) because I heard so many others raving about it here on BYC. I added a thin layer of DE to the bedding--and within days began noticing a bad smell. My bedding wasn't composting any more. With some more research I realized I'd killed off the healthy organisms that had been composting the manure and kitchen scraps and bedding material.

The Result
By leaving the DE layer undisturbed and layering lots more dirt, leaves and grass I was able to cure the bad smell but this spring as I cleaned out my deep litter I encountered a very different result than I did the first time. First, all the bedding was much drier and had retained its original form--still grass and leaves. It did not compost down into soil in the bottom layer as had happened before. (No live earthworms this year!) Second, when I reached the DE layer at the bottom it smelled horribly of ammonia.

So, rather than my bedding becoming more like great compost the further down I dug, instead it became more dead and stinky.

Other Updates
I did make it nicely through the year with seven of the heavy-duty, over-sized black plastic trash bags stuffed full of either dried grass or dried leaves. I even have one bag leftover to use in the cleaned-out coop until we get to lawn-mowing weather.

I still love that my bedding system is absolutely free (offer to rake your neighbor's leaves if you don't have enough!); it requires minimal effort after the initial mowing/raking, drying, and bagging; and it creates great compost so long as you never, ever use DE.

The Cold Winter Benefit
There is one more benefit I witnessed this winter. I now have a great big Barred Rock rooster. When he jumps down from the 4 ft high perch I can see the soft bedding cushioning his landing. I know it's a softer bedding than sand could ever be. Plus, I saw steam rising from the bedding in January when a hen was scratching around. This was a particularly harsh winter and I loved knowing they had a soft, warm, 18-24 inch layer of insulation between them and the frozen ground.

I love learning from people who have been doing something awhile and are willing to share their mistakes. I hope learning from mine will benefit others.

 

[duckhunternate]

Thank you for your insights on deep litter. I'll be building my first coop and getting my first chickens in the next month. I was up in the air about what method to use for the floor but now I'm seriously considering deep litter. I've already got some compost piles saved up from the last year, I have some large driveway rock, and I have wood chips (shredded cedar limbs). I would be putting the flooring directly on the ground (concrete pad), or possibly on dirt (if I build the coop in a slightly different spot). I love the idea that I can use the chickens to do the work of turning the compost for me, and that they can get warm in the winter turning the compost. Great ideas! If you have any additional insights please keep them coming! Nate