Rooster 'dance' explanation please/

[AmericanMom]

If anyone knows the name of a good thread to read, please post it. So many threads, so little time.

Start with what I told you and see if you can work it out of him.. Some people don't mind this behavior but most of us do. Some people are ok with being flogged and will tell you just to carry him around.. To each his own. I refuse to be "dominated" by any animal on my farm and although some might think its cute it will lead to more aggression in the long run. More experienced people handle their roosters differently, but I am not one of those people. I cull any that show the slightest bit of human aggression be they rooster, hen or rabbit

 

[centrarchid]

Start with what I told you and see if you can work it out of him.. Some people don't mind this behavior but most of us do. Some people are ok with being flogged and will tell you just to carry him around.. To each his own. I refuse to be "dominated" by any animal on my farm and although some might think its cute it will lead to more aggression in the long run. More experienced people handle their roosters differently, but I am not one of those people. I cull any that show the slightest bit of human aggression be they rooster, hen or rabbit 

More approaches than given here, and better, and I do not have aggressive birds.

 

[centrarchid]

To OP. See following thread.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/897832/2-yr-old-rooster-has-gone-psycho

Key post as follows.

To give credibility to what I write. Much of my background involves gamefowl (fighting chickens) but I also keep at least fifty American Dominiques and as a kid my family commercially produced hatching eggs for a chicken hatchery that sold to just about everyone interested in backyard / farmyard chickens. I likely have more roosters than most backyard people have chickens in total and that is when my flock size is at its lowest in early spring. My games need to be easy to handle because it is done a lot. My Dominiques need to be easy to because they are supposed to be. I also use my birds for educating the public and most of my contacts are kids and some of those are very young. Finally I always have at least one flock that free-ranges around house and others that free-range in adjoining pasture. Almost all male gamefowl are confined with the exception of one around house and those on walks. My very small kids intermingle with the flock that free-ranges around house and 4-year-old harem master is intact with respect to spurs. I also have been around chickens for well over 40 years.

Below are aggression categories as I recognize them and eluded to previously in thread. Each is defined when answering description of aggressive behavior. Pictures and videos I feel would help greatly and such are in the works. I also think maturation process needs to introduced to discussion where the term ”rooster” is avoided. Also, many of the forms of aggression below are not exclusively the realm of males.

1) Is he just running over, pecking / flogging then running to a safe distance to deny your counter attack and simply watching you?

Bird has associated such behavior with a reward. In most instances I have seen the bird has obtained food faster or in larger amounts by engaging in some behavior directed at you. This is frequently realized with brooder reared birds interacting with you as feeders are armed or eats otherwise become more evident with you present. Another situation is where birds work their basic tendency to try and get at the most attractive food which to them often involves it appearing fresh within their field of view. For me that can involve putting feed out from a bucket as feeding a flock of hungry birds. They rush after you pushing each and sometimes in the excitement the bucket or even you. Many people see such behavior and promptly put feed out for the apparently famished bird. It takes very little for bird to associate intense response with getting more or faster.

Prevention: Avoid rewarding exploratory behavior such as pecking and jumping up for food. Make so food reward is delayed relative to your activity around birds. My favorite technique is apply feed either when birds are asleep or foraging elsewhere. With latter you just call birds in after feed is applied.

Correction: Move about flock / bird even with feed but do not give feed out until bird looses interest.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: I manipulate this behavior train birds for experiments and interacting positively with the public. Behavior promoted simply does not involve what a person would see as aggression. Smart birds are really prone to this.


2) Is he standing his ground and flaring his hackles and interspersing this with outright attacks with spurs, wings and bill?

He is outright fighting you for rank and treats you as a conspecific. Based on most discussions this the assumed by keepers of man-fighters. Something is or has gone on that got him into mindset that you need to be and can be defeated so as to be a subordinate. Somewhere along the line you got too familiar with him and / or he learned through exploratory pecking he can make you retreat. This is particularly prevalent with folks that are uncomfortable around their birds. Even many experienced keepers are afraid of their birds for one reason or another and sometimes these people are prone to act aggressively against the birds and even bully them. This situation is more frequent than you might suspect and denial is often a part of the problem. Folks like this may need to visit with the equivalent of Alcohol Anonymous to work problem out. I have even seen people into gamefowl that are scared of their birds and they would be ready to fight you if you said they were such. Males in particular will take advantage of activities that make them feel tough. This is where genetics can also impact predisposition for man-fighting.

Prevention: Do not retreat from him when exploratory pecking or even flogging occurs. Do not attack him in response to an attack as it is very difficult to do so with appearing to alternate between bouts of attack and retreat like which occurs when birds fight.

Correction: Make so aggressive bird can engage you by fighting you but do nothing that would be interpreted as fighting back or retreating. Let him wail away (flog) which may last several minutes. If he breaks off attack, then move towards him but do not even give him the respect of eye contact. Do not strike or push him. Repeat until he stops. Process may need to be repeated in subsequent days with hardheaded birds. You want him to start thinking of you as something that is very much not another chicken. This may mean a flannel shirt or sweat shirt and jeans. Ideally you will appear the same as you do on other days so he does not test you for days when you are weak. If spurs are an issue which they can be with birds more than 18 months old, then they can be neutralized by removal, trimming or covering with the equivalent of boxing gloves (most laymen will not have last option owing to legal restrictions). An alternative to this approach can involve the restraint / time-out sessions where bird does not get the release associated with combat but does get a penalty he will learn to avoid. This technique does appear to work although it takes more time and is hard on birds that are flighty and prone to panic when restrained which is a form of stress.

Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Can be used to help sell a gamerooster to a fool. In a competitive breeding setting such as in a commercial flock more aggressive birds garner more fertilizations of eggs therefore tend to be more prolific. This not directly related to what is referred to as gameness in gamefowl.


3) Is he attacking while fluffed up like a hen making lots of noises and moving about in a very fussy manner? This if often associated with roosters where members of his harem (hen(s) or offspring) are scared. Many roosters, especially games will attack whatever they see as the threat and sometimes, real or not, that can be you. His response will be in trying to repel you. Rooster may also get touchy when new feathers are coming in during molt.

Prevention: Be careful around birds, especially when hens or chicks are involved. Avoid grabbing birds during daylight. Get birds to move voluntarily. Any rooster is easier to work with when his charges are calmer so always having all birds tame helps immensely. One crazy hen can stir up a male. I always manage for calm birds and that means starting from before hatch of an individual. Be careful when handling birds, especially during molt.

Correction: Frequent low intensity interactions without stirring anyone up reduces sensitivity to your activities.

Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Such behavior can increase survival of males offspring which can benefit you. This especially with small predators a male can repel or distract.

Culling can also be employed, but some parties will, as a function of their husbandry technique, be culling a lot of birds that would not be problematic for most poultry keepers.

 

[AmericanMom]

To OP. See following thread.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/897832/2-yr-old-rooster-has-gone-psycho

Key post as follows.

To give credibility to what I write. Much of my background involves gamefowl (fighting chickens) but I also keep at least fifty American Dominiques and as a kid my family commercially produced hatching eggs for a chicken hatchery that sold to just about everyone interested in backyard / farmyard chickens. I likely have more roosters than most backyard people have chickens in total and that is when my flock size is at its lowest in early spring. My games need to be easy to handle because it is done a lot. My Dominiques need to be easy to because they are supposed to be. I also use my birds for educating the public and most of my contacts are kids and some of those are very young. Finally I always have at least one flock that free-ranges around house and others that free-range in adjoining pasture. Almost all male gamefowl are confined with the exception of one around house and those on walks. My very small kids intermingle with the flock that free-ranges around house and 4-year-old harem master is intact with respect to spurs. I also have been around chickens for well over 40 years.

Below are aggression categories as I recognize them and eluded to previously in thread. Each is defined when answering description of aggressive behavior. Pictures and videos I feel would help greatly and such are in the works. I also think maturation process needs to introduced to discussion where the term ”rooster” is avoided. Also, many of the forms of aggression below are not exclusively the realm of males.

1) Is he just running over, pecking / flogging then running to a safe distance to deny your counter attack and simply watching you?

Bird has associated such behavior with a reward. In most instances I have seen the bird has obtained food faster or in larger amounts by engaging in some behavior directed at you. This is frequently realized with brooder reared birds interacting with you as feeders are armed or eats otherwise become more evident with you present. Another situation is where birds work their basic tendency to try and get at the most attractive food which to them often involves it appearing fresh within their field of view. For me that can involve putting feed out from a bucket as feeding a flock of hungry birds. They rush after you pushing each and sometimes in the excitement the bucket or even you. Many people see such behavior and promptly put feed out for the apparently famished bird. It takes very little for bird to associate intense response with getting more or faster.

Prevention: Avoid rewarding exploratory behavior such as pecking and jumping up for food. Make so food reward is delayed relative to your activity around birds. My favorite technique is apply feed either when birds are asleep or foraging elsewhere. With latter you just call birds in after feed is applied.

Correction: Move about flock / bird even with feed but do not give feed out until bird looses interest.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: I manipulate this behavior train birds for experiments and interacting positively with the public. Behavior promoted simply does not involve what a person would see as aggression. Smart birds are really prone to this.


2) Is he standing his ground and flaring his hackles and interspersing this with outright attacks with spurs, wings and bill?

He is outright fighting you for rank and treats you as a conspecific. Based on most discussions this the assumed by keepers of man-fighters. Something is or has gone on that got him into mindset that you need to be and can be defeated so as to be a subordinate. Somewhere along the line you got too familiar with him and / or he learned through exploratory pecking he can make you retreat. This is particularly prevalent with folks that are uncomfortable around their birds. Even many experienced keepers are afraid of their birds for one reason or another and sometimes these people are prone to act aggressively against the birds and even bully them. This situation is more frequent than you might suspect and denial is often a part of the problem. Folks like this may need to visit with the equivalent of Alcohol Anonymous to work problem out. I have even seen people into gamefowl that are scared of their birds and they would be ready to fight you if you said they were such. Males in particular will take advantage of activities that make them feel tough. This is where genetics can also impact predisposition for man-fighting.

Prevention: Do not retreat from him when exploratory pecking or even flogging occurs. Do not attack him in response to an attack as it is very difficult to do so with appearing to alternate between bouts of attack and retreat like which occurs when birds fight.

Correction: Make so aggressive bird can engage you by fighting you but do nothing that would be interpreted as fighting back or retreating. Let him wail away (flog) which may last several minutes. If he breaks off attack, then move towards him but do not even give him the respect of eye contact. Do not strike or push him. Repeat until he stops. Process may need to be repeated in subsequent days with hardheaded birds. You want him to start thinking of you as something that is very much not another chicken. This may mean a flannel shirt or sweat shirt and jeans. Ideally you will appear the same as you do on other days so he does not test you for days when you are weak. If spurs are an issue which they can be with birds more than 18 months old, then they can be neutralized by removal, trimming or covering with the equivalent of boxing gloves (most laymen will not have last option owing to legal restrictions). An alternative to this approach can involve the restraint / time-out sessions where bird does not get the release associated with combat but does get a penalty he will learn to avoid. This technique does appear to work although it takes more time and is hard on birds that are flighty and prone to panic when restrained which is a form of stress.

Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Can be used to help sell a gamerooster to a fool. In a competitive breeding setting such as in a commercial flock more aggressive birds garner more fertilizations of eggs therefore tend to be more prolific. This not directly related to what is referred to as gameness in gamefowl.


3) Is he attacking while fluffed up like a hen making lots of noises and moving about in a very fussy manner? This if often associated with roosters where members of his harem (hen(s) or offspring) are scared. Many roosters, especially games will attack whatever they see as the threat and sometimes, real or not, that can be you. His response will be in trying to repel you. Rooster may also get touchy when new feathers are coming in during molt.

Prevention: Be careful around birds, especially when hens or chicks are involved. Avoid grabbing birds during daylight. Get birds to move voluntarily. Any rooster is easier to work with when his charges are calmer so always having all birds tame helps immensely. One crazy hen can stir up a male. I always manage for calm birds and that means starting from before hatch of an individual. Be careful when handling birds, especially during molt.

Correction: Frequent low intensity interactions without stirring anyone up reduces sensitivity to your activities.

Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Such behavior can increase survival of males offspring which can benefit you. This especially with small predators a male can repel or distract.

Culling can also be employed, but some parties will, as a function of their husbandry technique, be culling a lot of birds that would not be problematic for most poultry keepers.

Your right, that was a good thread, chooks4life gave some excellent information and suggestions..

You advocate allowing a bird to flog humans, that's your choice, not many of us allow that nor could physically tolerate it.. Please remember, what you allow in your coop with your game birds most of us do or could not.


Cull aggressive roosters/hens. This behavior should not be tolerated nor accepted as normal.

 

[lazy gardener]

I also would not allow a rooster to flog me, or dance for me, and will not allow my roo to mount hens in front of me. IMO, allowing a roo to flog a human, reinforces the behavior. I can see where you are coming from with this, centrarchid, but, that will not be happening in my flock. Roosters who don't respond to basic training, get invited to lunch. And, IMO, if they are handled correctly from the egg through adolescence, basic training may never even be required for a lot of roos.

 

[sdm111]

Your right, that was a good thread, chooks4life gave some excellent information and suggestions.. 

You advocate allowing a bird to flog humans, that's your choice, not many of us allow that nor could physically tolerate it.. Please remember, what you allow in your coop with your game birds most of us do or could not.


Cull aggressive roosters/hens. This behavior should not be tolerated nor accepted as normal.

please remember that with games there's selective breeding which has kept those having a male mentality and hormones so it is natural behavior for stags to show their oats at adolescence. With layers soo much emphasis is put on production that roosters are merely just a byproduct with no manliness left so when one happens to show a little the auto response is to kill him.

 

[ralleia]

please remember that with games there's selective breeding which has kept those having a male mentality so it is natural behavior for stags to show their oats at adolescence. With layers soo much emphasis is put on production that roosters are merely just a byproduct with no manliness left so when one happens to show a little the auto response is to kill him.

Quite the contrary.

When we first got chickens, we bought chicks from a relatively new hatchery that had quality issues (two arrived dead, one live one had wry neck, etc.). The orpington rooster we kept from that batch turned aggressive, and we ate him after he spurred me while I had our infant in a carrier on my back.

From then on we got all our chicks from McMurray. The black australorp rooster we kept was always perfectly docile. When he eventually died, we got a mixed batch of cockerels from McMurray, intending to keep one as our new rooster.

I had already selected a handsome-looking roo from the mostly-grown batch and we were proceeding to butcher all the remaining roos. I would approach the oversize kennel where we had them, open the door and reach in, and drag one out to take to the processing area. After we got that one started along I would fetch the next. They would cower in the back when I opened the door.

I was dragging out a black roo when suddenly a barred rock turned from the corner and charged and bit my hand. The next time I approached to fetch a bird, he charged the door and almost managed to escape!

So he demonstrated 1) appropriate protectiveness of his flock-mates and 2) intelligence. That is "manly." It is also womanly.

We ended up sparing him because he showed these traits, and he turned out to be our favorite rooster ever. He would burst from the run every morning as soon as we opened the door to check the run for danger. If he found a tasty grub while out foraging he would call the hens to him so that they could enjoy it. And he "serviced" his hens. Yet he was always a perfect gentleman around humans as well.

Aggression towards humans is NOT rooster "manliness." It is a DEFECT.

With all the appropriately-behaved "manly" roosters available, there is no need to tolerate one that insists on attacking or flogging humans.

 

[centrarchid]

I also would not allow a rooster to flog me, or dance for me, and will not allow my roo to mount hens in front of me.  IMO, allowing a roo to flog a human, reinforces the behavior.  I can see where you are coming from with this, centrarchid, but, that will not be happening in my flock.  Roosters who don't respond to basic training, get invited to lunch.  And, IMO, if they are handled correctly from the egg through adolescence, basic training may never even be required for a lot of roos.

Your opinion is duly noted.

That is precisely my point. My birds are no where near as aggressive towards humans as likely most in a backyard setting, very likely this is to includes yours. I can go out and grab any bird save for one and let it interact freely with any human without incident. Those birds can also be taken elsewhere and be allowed to freely interact with small children not my own without discord. Most people with rooster problems are not even aware of the problem during earliest stages and that is where your opinion applies, not with my approach. My intent is for BYC'ers to better understand their birds so as to most appropriately respond. The culling approach is resulted to more frequently when ignorance prevails. I do cull a good number of birds annually but very seldom for this particular issue because it is easy to prevent.



The exceptional bird noted above has been treated like many advise on this forum which is reason he is aggressive. He will be trained in a documented manner once I am confident he is "set in his ways". Based on previous exchanges on this matter, only that one exceptional bird will be carried forward as an example that represents my knowledge by next poster on this topic. That be stupid but parr for course.

 

[AmericanMom]

please remember that with games there's selective breeding which has kept those having a male mentality and hormones so it is natural behavior for stags to show their oats at adolescence. With layers soo much emphasis is put on production that roosters are merely just a byproduct with no manliness left so when one happens to show a little the auto response is to kill him.

And I disagree, Manliness can be shown in every way possible with the exception of human aggression.

 

[lazy gardener]

Well spoken AM.