Run construction/predators/cost

[rehsanipoor]

This is my second time having a flock. Our first time we built Fort Knox for a run and put a very secure coop within it. They only free ranged when we were around and watching and we never lost a bird although we did battle rats at one point. We were careful but also lucky and we spent a fortune! We are in a suburban area and my neighbors have all lost birds (mostly at night).

This time around we are constructing things a little differently. The coop will be attached, but on the outside of the run. The coop itself will be secured with a hardware cloth apron and I am confident that we can get it good and safe. We do not have a rooster. The predators I'm aware of are raccoons, foxes, hawks, owls and rats. We are in Maryland.

Assuming my girls will only be in the run during the day how would you recommend I secure the run? Weather wise they will be able to take shelter in/under the coop.
I was planning on using 8 ft 2x4 to build connecting panels. similar to the pic below. I was not planning on putting a roof on for cost reasons. Can I use a strong
bird netting for the hawks? I'm Not sure if I need to worry about other predators getting in during the day.

If I do a hardware cloth apron around the outside of the run and halfway up the walls can I get away with doing chicken wire on the top half of the walls in an effort to keep costs down? See below:

Thanks so much for any advice or ideas you all may have!

 

[deidreg]

I know hardware cloth is expensive, but it's worth the investment. I have hardware cloth running below my coop and run, in addition to an apron. A roof is also a must, either hardware cloth or solid. Ground predators will climb up and drop in. Another benefit of hardware cloth is keeping out the rats. Good luck.

 

[rehsanipoor]

I know I need some type of protection over the run, but I've seen people do heavy duty bird netting. They say it keeps out the birds and predators that climb don't feel steady enough to climb on it.

 

[fuzzi]

I know I need some type of protection over the run, but I've seen people do heavy duty bird netting. They say it keeps out the birds and predators that climb don't feel steady enough to climb on it.

I've read about those who used bird netting with no losses, but also have read about those who lost their chickens despite bird netting.

What's it worth to you?

 

[SourRoses]

There's definitely value in a completely secure run, so I would never want to talk anyone out of that. It lets you really relax about your birds safety.

Personally, in our environment, we chose high security coops with low security runs.
With daylight, the chickens are better able to see predators. Our family life includes at least one of us being in the backyard every hour or so, and we can hear from inside if they start an alarm call. We have roosters and heavy foliage cover. So open yards work for us.

One thing I would not do is use chicken wire in the low security option. It's so weak that dogs and racoons can easily break through it.
We use a lot of 2x4 "no climb" welded wire. So wider openings but much more tensile strength. Also chain link or other kennel type fencing is always good.
My thinking being it's only the larger predators that are any danger to my birds during the day. And aerial, for which netting does work (but I can't keep it up under our tree canopy). Even wide opening wire can work against hawks because they don't have the confidence they can make a quick clean grab.
Rats are only a danger at night, and for smaller birds. I once lost a 3-month-old pullet to a rat that got in through a very small gap between boards in the coop, in the dark they can't protect themselves very well.

So, yeah, it can work to use a less expensive wire for most of the wall, and 1/2in HW Cloth a few feet off the ground to keep coons from grabbing them through the wire.
If you go low security like that you don't have to use HW Cloth for the apron because the small critters like rats will be able to get in from the top anyway. *This means not keeping feed overnight in the run, or investing in rat-proof feeders.

Sorry this is a bit long-winded. I hope whatever you pick works well for you.

 

[rehsanipoor]

There's definitely value in a completely secure run, so I would never want to talk anyone out of that. It lets you really relax about your birds safety.

Personally, in our environment, we chose high security coops with low security runs.
With daylight, the chickens are better able to see predators. Our family life includes at least one of us being in the backyard every hour or so, and we can hear from inside if they start an alarm call. We have roosters and heavy foliage cover. So open yards work for us.

One thing I would not do is use chicken wire in the low security option. It's so weak that dogs and racoons can easily break through it.
We use a lot of 2x4 "no climb" welded wire. So wider openings but much more tensile strength. Also chain link or other kennel type fencing is always good.
My thinking being it's only the larger predators that are any danger to my birds during the day. And aerial, for which netting does work (but I can't keep it up under our tree canopy). Even wide opening wire can work against hawks because they don't have the confidence they can make a quick clean grab.
Rats are only a danger at night, and for smaller birds. I once lost a 3-month-old pullet to a rat that got in through a very small gap between boards in the coop, in the dark they can't protect themselves very well.

So, yeah, it can work to use a less expensive wire for most of the wall, and 1/2in HW Cloth a few feet off the ground to keep coons from grabbing them through the wire.
If you go low security like that you don't have to use HW Cloth for the apron because the small critters like rats will be able to get in from the top anyway. *This means not keeping feed overnight in the run, or investing in rat-proof feeders.

Sorry this is a bit long-winded. I hope whatever you pick works well for you.

Thank you so much for that information. It was in line with what I was thinking of and I will look into stronger options for the top part of the run walls. Just wondering can you link me to a 2x4 "no climb" or send a picture. I'm not sure I know what that is.

Thank you again, I appreciate your long winded answer!

 

[rehsanipoor]

Never mind, I just googled it and it popped right up! Is 2x4 the size of the holes?

 

[imacowgirl2]

I have a high security coop and low security run. My run is 2x4 welded wire, with the bottom two feet covered with chicken wire (and 2 foot chicken wire apron…2 ft apron instead of 1 ft apron just because 4 ft chicken wire and not 3 ft chicken wire is what was in stock lol) — the apron and bottom two feet of chicken wire help prevent chicks and smaller birds escaping and give me grace from my not perfectly flat ground…it ensures I have fencing coverage completely to the ground with no gaps. I then have heavy duty hawk netting on top.

We have numerous hawks that nest in the area, and we have tons of raccoons in the area, though we don’t generally see them during the day. We have neighborhood dogs as well.

Our setup has worked really well. The only time we’ve lost birds at night is when some roosted in the run and we didn’t notice it, and a raccoon did get them through the wire (they were roosted against the wire). We’ve never lost a bird to a predator from within the run during the day…the only daytime losses we have had were birds that were free ranging.

Yes, there is a chance we could have a random predator breech the run during the day…but that chance was not nearly high enough to justify the extremely higher cost of hardware cloth, in our specific situation. Our specific situation includes the fact that we free range most days, and I work from home and can respond if a ruckus starts. I think everyone needs to consider the cost vs benefit for their particular situation, which will be different for everyone.

 

[rehsanipoor]

I have a high security coop and low security run. My run is 2x4 welded wire, with the bottom two feet covered with chicken wire (and 2 foot chicken wire apron…2 ft apron instead of 1 ft apron just because 4 ft chicken wire and not 3 ft chicken wire is what was in stock lol) — the apron and bottom two feet of chicken wire help prevent chicks and smaller birds escaping and give me grace from my not perfectly flat ground…it ensures I have fencing coverage completely to the ground with no gaps. I then have heavy duty hawk netting on top.

We have numerous hawks that nest in the area, and we have tons of raccoons in the area, though we don’t generally see them during the day. We have neighborhood dogs as well.

Our setup has worked really well. The only time we’ve lost birds at night is when some roosted in the run and we didn’t notice it, and a raccoon did get them through the wire (they were roosted against the wire). We’ve never lost a bird to a predator from within the run during the day…the only daytime losses we have had were birds that were free ranging.

Yes, there is a chance we could have a random predator breech the run during the day…but that chance was not nearly high enough to justify the extremely higher cost of hardware cloth, in our specific situation. Our specific situation includes the fact that we free range most days, and I work from home and can respond if a ruckus starts. I think everyone needs to consider the cost vs benefit for their particular situation, which will be different for everyone.

Thank you for your response. I really feel better hearing the different strategies people use, and knowing I have some options. I've done an entire run in hardware cloth before and I don't think my hands or wallet can take that again!

Just to clarify, do you have 2x4 welded wire from the bottom to the top of the walls, and then chicken wire doubling over the bottom two feet? Your predator situation sounds very similar to mine. We also have a ton of raccoons at night, plenty of foxes at night, and hawks during the day. I just saw a hawk sitting on my fence (I gave him a dirty look for good measure and I think he gave me "the wing").

You mentioned heavy duty hawk netting, I just placed an order from Pinon Hatch Farms for Heavy Knotted Poultry Netting 2" Mesh. Do you think that will be effective? Do you have supports for the netting in winter weather? We don't get as much snow/ice in Baltimore as you do in Illinois, but we do get some.

Thanks again!!

 

[Smokerbill]

I was debating between chicken wire mesh and hardware cloth for the run, and was advised to spend the extra money and go with HWC. I bought a roll on AMZN for a little over $80. It was 4 foot wide 1/2" mesh, 50 feet long. It was just enough to do the walls and skirt of my new run. My run is under a metal roof.

At least I know that I can leave the place for a day or two, and feel pretty secure that the chickens are safe in the run. The extra money was worth the peace of mind to me.

Something that helped offset the cost of the HWC was that most of the lumber I used was cull lumber from Home Depot. They usually have a stack of boards marked down 70%. I bought a LOT of discount lumber, and have some left over for other projects.

The dang screws were the worst. I went through one 5 pound box and two 3 pound boxes of 3" or 3 1/2" screws. Those alone were around $75. Plus I bought a 5 pound box of 1 5/8" screws, $40, but used less than a pound of those. Lots of fasteners used!