sand vs. deep litter - which is best for my situation?

[lizgarf]

Hi,
I am almost done constructing my coop/run for my first flock of 5 chickens. I built it under my deck, using the existing structure as the frame, and it's about 5' x 25', give or take (all one open-air structure, enclosed with hardware cloth, with no separate coop since I live in a temperate climate). The structure is in the middle of a steep hillside, so transporting sand is very difficult - involving about 40 stairs - not wheelbarrow or dump-truck friendly at all.

So, bringing sand up to the coop has a big downside, but it sounds like lots of people really like it. Also, it sounds like most people with sand clean up the poop a few times a week, whereas, people who use the deep litter method do not have to clean it all that often. Is that accurate? Does sand require more frequent cleaning than the deep litter method? I guess I'm confused because a lot of posts say that sand is cleaner than shavings or straw, but it also sounds like they're cleaning very frequently, so maybe that's why it's cleaner.

Are there any downsides to putting some straw/shavings on top of sand, or in some parts of the coop/run? It seems like it'd be easier to compost the poop if it comes with shavings, rather than with sand, so I was thinking of putting shavings in poop-bins under the roosts, for example.

Thanks for your thoughts. Super excited to move my 9-week old pullets into their new home!
--Liz

 

[TexasLea]

What sort of ground is in the area now? I personally just have regular old dirt in my run. The same stuff that was there when we built it. I knock it loose with the hoe if it gets to packed down every once in awhile, but for the most part I just use a garden rake to turn it.

I guess you have to consider the weather and climate in your decision as to what to use. Shavings in my opinion would be best if it is cool and dry. I find them to be a big mess when they get wet. They're like sponges and take a long time to dry out. But, they are great for making soft, warm layers insulating the birds from a cold ground. Straw or hay is good here too and has the bonus of giving the chcikens something to snack on as they find all the seeds.

Sand or dirt is great for when it is warm or wet. If it is hot you can wet the ground with your water hose and it cools the area quite a bit. Also, chickens are like dogs and will dig holes in the ground to find cooler dirt to lay on. Not to mention it is a necessity for the very entertaining chicken dust bath!


Shavings in poop bins works well. However, it takes FOREVER for them to compost! I finally gave up on that idea and starting tossing my pooped shavings out with the garbage. Please let me know if you find something to make them break down faster. It's seems sucha shame to let all that good fertilizer be carried off by the trash man each week. As for putting a layer on top of the sand, you will soon have a sand/ shaving mix. The birds will scratch around in it and mix it all up.

Congrat's on finishing your coop and getting your girls out into their new home! It is so much fun to watch them explore it for the first time.

 

[lizgarf]

Thanks for the detailed response!
I have a dirt floor - I just built the coop/run into the existing structure of the deck, but I didn't put in a separate floor.
I live in Oakland, CA, so it's very dry about half the year, and wet the other half, not too hot and not too cold. The whole run is mostly covered because of the deck, and some parts of it are going to be drier than others, so I'm thinking of putting sand on top of dirt in the parts that are most prone to get wet, and use dirt/bedding material in the other parts.
I bought a big bag of coconut coir (the hairs from the outside of the coconut), which I'm going to give a try in the poop bins. It should compost well, but I'm not sure it'll be cost-effective. Even if it doesn't fully compost, you need some brown matter (wood shavings, etc.) to make compost, so why would the shavings not help? Even if it doesn't compost completely, it would still be helpful to the soil as mulch, I'd think.

Any sand-users and DL-users out there want to weigh in on their cleaning schedules? It seems like a lot of sand-users said they clean daily, which I'd really rather not do.

 

[joan1708]

I use deep litter. I have been a composter for 20 years so it seems natural to me. It does take time to compost. My coop is small (3 x3 feet) and has a wood floor covered with linoleum. I have 6 inches of small size wood shavings in it. I use a cat litter scoop and pick up the poop each morning and put it in my compost bin that in 2 feet away. In my run I use a variety of material, chipper shredded wood from my oak trees, some moved grass, and large shredded wood shavings. I add to it to keep it 6-8 inches. The chickens generally keep it stirred up. I hoe it around a little to even out the holes they dig. You have to have enough room for your chickens to keep this in balance. I think if you can see the poop in the litter you don't have enough litter or too many chickens. I have 3 silkies in ~ 40 square feet.

The compost pile that I put the morning poop in also contains kitchen waste, yard waste, cut back flowers, bushes, and grass. I try to keep the poop buried by stirring it a little. I keep it moist to keep it working. Every 3 months I dump it into another bin and let it compost for 3 months. I do not put anything else in there, except water to keep it moist. I turn it at least twice to make sure all the poop is completely composted. Chicken poop has to be completely composted to be safe for the garden. After 3 months it is ready to go.

So I have one pile that is accumulating stuff. And another pile that is in final composting mode. I keep a third pile for yard waste that can be used as litter. I don't water it, and can add it to the "accumulating pile" when the accumulating pile is too "green" or has to much nitrogen (poop garbage smell). Balanced compost piles don't stink, when compost piles are really cooking they can have an earthy smell but don't stink.

My plan is to add 1/2 of the chicken run litter to the accumulating pile 2 x a year.

My problem with sand is, it does nothing for my compost or my garden. I want my chickens working to make my garden more fertile.

 

[MelissasYard]

I read that chicken poop could be sprinkled directly on your garden without composting as long as its dry.

 

[joan1708]

My resources say that is a good way to get E. coli, salmonella, etc. And it goes from the soil up into the plant. You can't wash it off. I read about was a deadly salmonella or E coli outbreak in Europe that was tracked back to an organic farm in Germany. And my money is on inadequate manure management. Rabbit manure is the only manure that I know of that can go directly in the garden, and I still wouldn't do it. Dog and cat manure shouldn't ever be composted. I have a "septic tank" for my dog poop.

 

[marzullol]

I would be interested in others methods of tending their coops.

We put down crush n run as a base to level the ground where we wanted to build, 9 inches in some areas up to 18 inches on the far side, after the frame was built we put a 2 -3 inch layer of pond screen down. In the coop area we are building a poop board under the roost and planned on doing shavings on the ground, have not figured out what to put down in the open area.

I have a tumble composter I was planning on adding the shavings to, shoudl I rethink that plan

Hate that I might have hijacked the thread, sorry

 

[TexasLea]

Joan1708 I need composting lessons! I'm not an expert composter by any means. I pretty much just have a open pile that I turn and water from time to time. It takes a lot longer than 3 months for mine to make good mulch anyway!

When I tried to put the shavings in there, I was adding 5 gallon bucketfuls at a time. When I realized they weren't breaking down I stopped adding them. It took a good 18-24 months for me to not see shavings in the pile anymore.

I bet the coconut fiber will be awesome for compost though! I wish I knew somewhere around here to get it in bulk for a cheap price. That will be some really rich soil when the coco poop is worked in!

 

[isaviti]

Hi all,

I live in Sri Lanka and use coconut coir for my bedding. Its only about 2 dollars for a 20 kg bag here so I'm lucky - however - it seems to have a lot of the same issues as shavings. Its a tropical climate here so its hot and humid all the time and when the coconut gets wet it takes weeks to dry and doesn't seem to keep the coop clean in the meantime. It composts quickly though! I'm wondering if I should abandon the enclosed part of my coop completely because its warm here anyways and just leave the chickens in the run (its a two-story design so they have some shelter in the lower level. I suppose they would just need a place to roost and would be good to go.

learning as I go...

 

[joan1708]

My run is covered and on a slope, so I don't worry too much about the litter getting wet. If your shavings won't "cook", try catching your grass clippings when you mow and mix in there. Make sure the pile is wet throughout, and it needs to be big enough, 3 x 3 x 3 is what I like to start with. You can cheat and get some miracle grow or synthetic fertilizer and mix it up in there to get it cooking. I believe if you have chicken poop in there you want it to get to 130 degrees for 48 hrs with 3 turnings to be safe to put on vegetable gardens. If it's just kitchen and garden waste, it doesn't matter.