Scratch

[skeeter]

makes me wonder what everyone thinks is the magical ingredient in store bought chicken feed if it isnt corn,and corn is corn

 

[snowydiamonds]

There must also be a lot of hot dogs and hot cats in houses across the world, the three main ingredients in store bought dog kibble (dog food in a bag) is: corn, corn gluten, corn...boy, I just ate a corn on the cob and I'm cold!

I like to think of it this way: Scratch is for chickens to scratch for, keeps 'em busy, pecking and scratching and they are so cute doing it They are so busy scratching, they won't peck on each other, indoors or out, winter, summer, spring, fall...Scratch was never meant to be FEED.

 

[cjstanman]

Quote:
I like that! When I first started digging through this forum, the consensus was that scratch = candy. My 2-mo. olds get feed and an occasional handful of dessert.

 

[skand]

lol...half the time we overdo the thinking process. Remember the phrase..KISS---Keep It Simple Stupid!
My birds have eaten the combo in the feeder for 2 years now. The combo being, scratch, game fowl conditioner, game fowl maintenence, chickstart. Plus, in the evenings, they get that combo stirred up into the scraps from the house. Everyone of my birds waits ever so not patiently to eat every single bite. We feel that like humans, if it's in thier plate, and they don't want/like it, they won't eat it. My peafowl and my pheasant's have a pile of corn that they don't eat. So hopefully, next year, we'll be growing corn!

 

[dlhunicorn]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

nymph&nimor :

so i understand that feeding corn might not be good for your chickens when it is hot out, but does it have any other side effects?

This is simply NOT true!!!!!

Corn is a highly digestible source of simple carbohydrates for monogastrics. It does NOT produce extra heat during metabolism like is noted when feeding high fiber ingredients that result in fermentation in the hind gut.

Corn is noted as a "hot feed" in the cattle industry since it is so easily digestible and can lead to metabolic disorders such as founder and ruminal acidosis.

Jim​

http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/ag101/printpoultry.html
"....Poultry in the U.S. are fed diets which are primarily ground corn to supply heat and energy and soybean meal to provide protein...."

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdlink?did...QT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1224155972&clientId=79356
(PhD thesis > Comparison of different methods of determining available energy in corn lines for swine and poultry
(small excerpt pg 16/17):
"... Corn grain is a high-energy feedstuff due to containing readily available carbohydrates (sugars and starches) and oil for animals.... the carbohydrates in corn grain, with the exception of the hulls, are primary starch. Starch accounts for about 72% of the corn kernel... the total protein of corn is deficient...for monogastric animal species and requires supplementation.... "

http://www.hyline.com/userdocs/library/0_Heat Stress.pdf
(Hyline)Heat Stress in Commercial Layers and Breeders
"Thermoregulation of the Hen
Chickens, unlike most other animals, do not
possess sweat glands to aid in heat loss....As the environmental temperature approaches the body temperature of the bird, 41ºC (106ºF), the efficiency of these heat loss mechanisms diminish. At this point the evaporation of water from the respiratory tract becomes the major heat loss mechanism of the bird. The evaporation of one gram of water dissipates 540 calories of maintenance energy. .....
.... Effects of Heat Stress
One of the primary effects of high environmental temperature on a flock is reduced feed intake. A reduction in appetite is the birds’ effort toreduce energy intake in response to the increase in the energy in the environment, thereby reducing the energy needed from the feed.....
Nutritional Management of the Heat Stressed
Flock
Heat-stressed flocks usually experience a
loss in appetite. This decreased feed intake can be
compensated by formulating a more concentrated
feed. The actual energy requirement of the bird is reduced at high environmental temperatures

repeated from above:
A reduction in appetite is the birds’ effort toreduce energy intake in response to the increase in the energy in the environment, thereby reducing the energy needed from the feed..."
"....Poultry in the U.S. are fed diets which are primarily ground corn to supply heat and energy... [/b]

The bird's body temperature increases after feed ingestion due to the thermogenic processes of digestion and metabolism...adding extra corn (energy) as scratch to the diet during periods of heat stress WILL increase the heat load the bird has to dissipate and therefore is detrimental in times of heat stress .​

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
This is simply NOT true!!!!!

Corn is a highly digestible source of simple carbohydrates for monogastrics. It does NOT produce extra heat during metabolism like is noted when feeding high fiber ingredients that result in fermentation in the hind gut.

Corn is noted as a "hot feed" in the cattle industry since it is so easily digestible and can lead to metabolic disorders such as founder and ruminal acidosis.

Jim

http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/ag101/printpoultry.html
"....Poultry in the U.S. are fed diets which are primarily ground corn to supply heat and energy and soybean meal to provide protein...."

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdlink?did...QT=309&VName=PQD&TS=1224155972&clientId=79356
(PhD thesis > Comparison of different methods of determining available energy in corn lines for swine and poultry
(small excerpt pg 16/17):
"... Corn grain is a high-energy feedstuff due to containing readily available carbohydrates (sugars and starches) and oil for animals.... the carbohydrates in corn grain, with the exception of the hulls, are primary starch. Starch accounts for about 72% of the corn kernel... the total protein of corn is deficient...for monogastric animal species and requires supplementation.... "

http://www.hyline.com/userdocs/library/0_Heat Stress.pdf
(Hyline)Heat Stress in Commercial Layers and Breeders
"Thermoregulation of the Hen
Chickens, unlike most other animals, do not
possess sweat glands to aid in heat loss....As the environmental temperature approaches the body temperature of the bird, 41ºC (106ºF), the efficiency of these heat loss mechanisms diminish. At this point the evaporation of water from the respiratory tract becomes the major heat loss mechanism of the bird. The evaporation of one gram of water dissipates 540 calories of maintenance energy. .....
.... Effects of Heat Stress
One of the primary effects of high environmental temperature on a flock is reduced feed intake. A reduction in appetite is the birds’ effort toreduce energy intake in response to the increase in the energy in the environment, thereby reducing the energy needed from the feed.....
Nutritional Management of the Heat Stressed
Flock
Heat-stressed flocks usually experience a
loss in appetite. This decreased feed intake can be
compensated by formulating a more concentrated
feed. The actual energy requirement of the bird is reduced at high environmental temperatures

repeated from above:
A reduction in appetite is the birds’ effort toreduce energy intake in response to the increase in the energy in the environment, thereby reducing the energy needed from the feed..."
"....Poultry in the U.S. are fed diets which are primarily ground corn to supply heat and energy... [/b]

...adding extra corn (energy) as scratch to the diet during periods of heat stress WILL increase the heat load the bird has to dissipate and therefore is detrimental in times of heat stress .​

With all due respect, your references do NOT indicate that corn increase body heat. There is a difference between environmental temperature and internal body temperatures. You have confused the two issues.

The premise I am refuting is that simply feeding corn heats up a chicken, in the sense of "Geez it is cold tonight, I better heat up the chickens with some corn instead of regular feed." If chickens are consuming a properly balanced diet they should maintain their body temperature. If you are worried about their ability to maintain body heat you should feed a lower energy diet with high fiber and high protein.

The fiber will add metabolic heat (aka Heat Increment) through fermentation in the gut while the excess protein will add heat via deammination and transformation into fat.

Jim
Jim

 

[dlhunicorn]

what I said was:

...adding extra corn (energy) as scratch to the diet during periods of heat stress WILL increase the heat load the bird has to dissipate and therefore is detrimental in times of heat stress .

Corn is composed of four principal ingredients viz. Starch (Carbohydrate), Gluten (Proteinous material), Fat (Lipids) and Fibers (Cellulosic Material)
What the articles explain (to put it very simplistically):
corn=energy
energy=body heat

http://www.cobb-vantress.com/Publications/documents/TN-Summer-98.pdf
Chet Wiernusz, Ph.D., Technical Service
(Nutritional Therapies to Optimize Poultry Production during High Humidity and Ambient Temperature Exposure)
"...Some therapeutic approaches are adversely opposed to each other, making the selection process less than straight forward unless one has a sound working knowledge of bird physiological and behavioral responses...Additional studies indicate that high fat rations have the potential to
negate acclimation effects by obligating the bird to high levels of heat production....
THERMOBALANCE HEAT PRODUCTION:
Bird thermobalance is a composite of heat production and its dissipation and can be estimated with indirect calorimetry. (Figure 2).......This means that 60% of ME consumption will be lost as heat...."

I totally agree that giving too "much" scratch in a misplaced attempt to keep the bird "warm"(thereby diluting the nutrition and nutritionally balanced feed/nutrition content of the feed) in a bird which is already reducing its feed intake is NOT advisable ... as in a heat stress situation it is also advised in cold stress to give a balanced nutritional supplement to offset the reduced feed intake. Personally I give just a bit of scratch after they have had their "main" meal (so I do not mix it in with the feed)​

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
I think you have misinterpreted what you have read. We use high levels of fat to increase the nutrient density of diets in the SUMMER to overcome reduced feed intake due to heat stress and limit heat from metabolism. However we are not talking about heat in the magnitude of keeping chickens warm in the "gee its cold out manner. You must remember that nutritionists are working to improve feed efficiency on the micro scale i.e. changing from 1.73 to 1.70.

In the winter, feed intake is not typically an issue unless there are extreme cicumstances like frozen drinkers. We would then use a "normal" diet with less added fat as the birds and hogs would overconsume nutrients.

Jim

 

[dlhunicorn]

yes indeed... in cold weather (especially when the birds are unable to free range) they will need more feed to maintain their body temperatures (thus will eat "more" because of these two factors however all the advice (for free non-caged systems) I have read is to concentrate the nutrition ... my birds tend to huddle togethr and are unwilling to eat sufficiently unless the feed is almost literally placed under their noses . Feed efficency is reduced and deficiency develops even when they do appear to eat enough ... immune incompetance (causing birds to become ill) and agression due to simple borderline deficiency problems can be alleviated by simply concentrating the nutrition by adding a good general supplement as is advised also for heat stress.

http://www.poultry.uga.edu/extension/tips/index.htm
(Feeding The Backyard Flck in Cold Weather)
"....With their feather coat, birds have much more resistance to cold than to hot temperatures. However, during periods of low temperature, the bird will need to eat more in order to generate adequate body heat. For this reason, attention should be given to how much feed we provide to the backyard flock. It is never a good
idea to overfeed, as the feed not consumed may become damp and go out of condition. However, we need
to make sure that the flock has adequate feed to continue to produce meat or eggs and at the same time maintain a healthy body temperature....."
(same link as above)
TIS THE SEASON FOR COLD AND FLU"....
8) Maintain good ventilation while providing needed warmth. Block drafts to minimize chilling and huddling. Cold-stressed birds are more susceptible to disease than birds kept in a stable temperature environment.
9) Provide appropriate nutrition. Nutrient requirements will increase during the winter months when birds have to compensate for low temperatures in their living quarters...."

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
Yes they do, but there is typically a concomitant increase in feed intake unless you are in extreme conditions.

Jim