Sebastopol geese - selecting breeding stock, color genetics, and color improvement

[CelticOaksFarm]

Poultry, I would if they were mine. I would love to put these two together but she doesn't take to just anyone so not going to stress them both.

 

[poultry09]

Poultry, I would if they were mine. I would love to put these two together but she doesn't take to just anyone so not going to stress them both.

Ok thanks! I am sorry to hear that you cant put the two together for breeding I also was wondering if my grey goose was a actualy called a different color? I read somewhere that a true grey will have no white on it at all. Also what color goslings would the two produce if I put them together for breeding next year?

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions.

Thanks

 

[poultry09]

I was just going through some old threads and found some great info on sebastopol colors and breedings for them, they are loaded with info so I thought I would share them. Some have allready seen this thred but I thought I would share anyways


https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/561779/our-guide-to-colour-and-pattern-genetics-in-geese

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/562383/definining-blue-lavander-lilac-and-cream-in-sebastopols

 

[Ana Tidae]

After looking at the pics of the solid greys and blues, can anybody tell me if it is acceptable for the solid colors to have white edging on them here and there?
Does anybody have truly solid colored greys or blues?

This juvenile is an example of what I mean:

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Poultry yes I know of those links, thanks for bringing them back to the top again though.

 

[EmAbTo48]

IMO Holderread did a disservice to the breed by introducing colored and patterned varieties. The colored birds simply do not look attractive due to the Sebastopol feathering. There is no way to appreciate the lacing or the pattern. They look dirty. It is difficult enough to breed good quality Pomeranian pattern. By adding the Sebastopol feathering you now have a harder time even determining if the markings are correct. It is bad enough that he messed with the breed to begin with, but by adding so many new varieties at one time made it practically impossible to focus on one, enough to impove it to a high state of quality. Again, not that a grey or other colored Sebastopol will ever have clear and solid color like the whites, simply because of the nature of colored feathers, fluff and down color, etc.
I mean no insult, but none of the birds that have been pictured so far are quality Sebastopols, even if the color were ignored. A few of the whites resemble at least average representatives of the breed, but many of the colored birds are culls at best, mixed breeds at worst. In any breed you must always focus on type first, which in Sebastopols includes feathering, and none of them have it. If they were all whites, most would be disqualified by any decent judge who knows what he's doing, as lacking in proper breed characteristics.

I think the greys are beautiful and so are many of the other colors. You must remember you our on a forum that not everyone posting is willing to allow a bird that is not say "breeding material" to be just culled like its worth nothing to them. This forum to me is to learn more and gain knowledge of a breed and its genetics thats the only way you can learn what is right and wrong.
I think Sebastopols that are not "high quality" are still beautiful birds and stand out greatly to many of their counter parts. Do they need to be bred no but they sure make wonderful pets.

 

[Narragansett]

Quote:
I never wrote that the culls wouldn't make good "pets". The topic is about selecting breeding stock. Breeding for quality infers that there will be culls, or else there is no improvement. I no longer breed Sebastopols, but that doesn't mean that I still don't recognize good from poor quality. I can still read the breed Standard. Again, if anyone disagrees with my assessment, ask any licensed poultry judge to evaluate them, and see what answer you get. The original post mentioned that not all Sebastopols should be bred. I'll ask, if these are suitable breeding stock, could someone show an example of something that isn't?

I've given my opinion on the birds I've seen as to how well they resemble the breed Standard, excluding color obviously. Does everyone really want instead for me to ooohhh and aahhh about how beautiful every bird is, or do they want a truthful unbiased opinion? I'd say not to ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer. Or else, just say that you want compliments only on how wonderful your birds are, whether that's true or not. And, no, I don't prefer colored Sebastopols. That doesn't make me wrong about the overall quality simply because you disagree.

 

[poultry09]

No I started this thread for those discussing the colored varieties and genetics and breeding. Not to have the colored sebbie haters join in pointing out how wrong they are to be created.

I agree 110% with you Celtic, This thread was created to help people (such as me, and many others) on how to properly select breeding stock and identify colors in the Sebastopol’s. Now I may not be an expert but I do know that Dave Holderread is one of the most knowledgeable waterfowl breeds in the United States, so I trust that he would not do anything to harm any breed of waterfowl.

Beautiful COLORED Sebastopol’s everyone!
Thanks
Poultry09

 

[DaveK]

As I wrote, I meant no insult. I simply stated the truth, and my opinion. If you disagree with my assessment of the quality of the birds that are pictured, ask for a licensed judge to evaluate them. Go to a show and compare the birds there to those that are pictured. I'm sorry, but being in molt is not going to affect them that much. They are what they are. Would you rather I lied and heaped on the compliments about birds which simply do not measure up to the breed Standard, leading people on to continue to believe that they have something nice, when they don't?
I must have misunderstood the subject of the thread. I didn't realize that it was only for people who like the colored varieties. I thought that it was for discussion of them in general, which might include different opinions.

There is a great deal of difference between offering the opinion that you don't care for the colored stock vs the idea that you are offering a learned evaluation of that same stock. As far as licensed judges and evaluating what gets shown send me an email and I'll be so crass as to show you what was put up at Crossroads last fall. What gets shown and what gets put up out of the entry at any given show is not always all it is cracked up to be even if they are white. There are saddlebacks being bred that for overall quality - breed type and character, feathering and general impression - are way better than most of the whites that exist. Whites vary so much as to seem like several different breeds at times. Some of the colors are harder than others but good work is being done and progress is being made. Not all of the interest in the colored stock is of the stocking my shelves with something to offer everyone mentality. My own birds are white. Every one of them as that is where I prefer to focus my time and effort. That circumstance doesn't keep me from appreciating quality when and where and if I find it. I have been hard on the overall quality represented by many. I am hard on my own stock as well. They can be seen by going to either of two albums listed under my profile. Are there efforts of your own for the rest of us to view or just comments about Dave Holderread doing a disservice to the breed? I strongly suspect there will be no pictures forthcoming from you of your own efforts as that remark about the moult not greatly affecting overall appearance would not be made by someone with any degree of experience with decent quality stock. No one who has taken their stock through an average winter and then breeding season would ever make that claim. Dave worked on some things he found interesting and in many ways did not have all finished end products. Some of that work is being continued though not always by breeding Holderread to Holderread. The sort of interest that was shown in the coloreds as a sales pitch is not the fault of the originator. None of us can control why someone has or what they want to do with their birds. I've gone back and looked again at your idea of going to a show and comparing the entry to what has been pictured. Do you honestly feel that only top quality birds end up entered? Do you honestly feel that the evaluations of those entries have been on the money?

 

[Narragansett]

There is a great deal of difference between offering the opinion that you don't care for the colored stock vs the idea that you are offering a learned evaluation of that same stock. Very true. Here I have done both. As far as licensed judges and evaluating what gets shown send me an email and I'll be so crass as to show you what was put up at Crossroads last fall. What gets shown and what gets put up out of the entry at any given show is not always all it is cracked up to be even if they are white. True again. I was there, I saw them, but it is at a show in general where one is much more likely to see quality examples of the breeds from which to compare their own stock. And that was one show, one judge (for the Sebastopols). There are saddlebacks being bred that for overall quality - breed type and character, feathering and general impression - are way better than most of the whites that exist. Whites vary so much as to seem like several different breeds at times. As in all breeds. Some of the colors are harder than others but good work is being done and progress is being made. Not all of the interest in the colored stock is of the stocking my shelves with something to offer everyone mentality. My own birds are white. Every one of them as that is where I prefer to focus my time and effort. That circumstance doesn't keep me from appreciating quality when and where and if I find it. Same here. So you don't breed colored Sebastopols either, yet you are qualified to evaluate them and not I? Do all judges breed all breeds and varieties which they judge? I have been hard on the overall quality represented by many. I am hard on my own stock as well. They can be seen by going to either of two albums listed under my profile. Are there efforts of your own for the rest of us to view or just comments about Dave Holderread doing a disservice to the breed? I'm not holding my birds up here for others to critique, then complaining when I get it. Let's just give you the benfit of the doubt, all of my birds are crap. Does that preclude me from recognizing it, or quality? Yes Holderread did a disservice to the breed IMO. strongly suspect there will be no pictures forthcoming from you of your own efforts as that remark about the moult not greatly affecting overall appearance would not be made by someone with any degree of experience with decent quality stock. No one who has taken their stock through an average winter and then breeding season would ever make that claim. You misread. I never wrote that. The point was that quality birds in molt after having been through the worst winter and breeding season will not present in poor type. Dave worked on some things he found interesting and in many ways did not have all finished end products. Some of that work is being continued though not always by breeding Holderread to Holderread. The sort of interest that was shown in the coloreds as a sales pitch is not the fault of the originator. None of us can control why someone has or what they want to do with their birds. I've gone back and looked again at your idea of going to a show and comparing the entry to what has been pictured. Do you honestly feel that only top quality birds end up entered? Do you honestly feel that the evaluations of those entries have been on the money? Of course not. Did you see that Muscovy? It's one thing to bemoan the average quality found or pictured but it is also ridiculous to assume that show entries and even the winners are birds approaching what the SOP desires them to be.