Soft-shelled egg, then good egg, then soft-shelled, and so on...what's going on?

[My Three Chicks]

Your situation is almost identical to that of my almost 9 month old Easter Egger, Molly. I have no idea how any of my 5 laying hens could have a calcium deficiency. All of them get more than 1 tsp. full of BSF every day. The truth is that it is probably double that amount. Even her eggs that I consider safe to use are fairly thin shelled. Many of them are "jelly" eggs or jelly eggs with part of a shell. I am beginning to think this is genetic and wonder if Easter Eggers and/or other hybrids might tend to have more problems with the stage of their egg laying in which the shell forms. FYI: my chickens not only have either Dumor or Purina layer feed out all the time. But they free range over several acres most of the day every day. They can get worms and until a few days ago also had access to bugs. It is getting too cold to find bugs now.

I am in Guilford County, NC., and have only had chickens for less than 9 months. The hens started laying around 5 months. They have oyster shell in a separate container all of the time. They love scrambled eggs for their treat as well as sardines in water, which they love. I would like to find a much better and higher protein food for them for this winter.

Did you find any resolution to this? I love my chickens and want to help them as best as I can.

Hi chirstine02. I'm the original poster so I wanted to reply and let you know the outcome...I took my Speckled Sussex who had the problem for about a month to the vet. My Golden Comet started having the same problem a couple of days before our vet appt so I took them both in to see the doctor. He checked them both out (including fecal test) and said they both seemed very healthy. He told me to cut out all treats. AND the calcium citrate I had been giving to my SS. He said that the treats and the calcium is throwing off the delicate nutritional balance they are getting from their feed. He said...Keep it Simple (Stupid...he didn't say that word though ). And can you believe that after that visit, there was only 1 more soft shelled egg?! So it was either coincidental or he was right!

Speckled Sussex is just finishing a hard molt so she hasn't laid in over a month now. My Golden Comet still lays almost every day and her eggs are back to hard shelled!

One other thing the vet said, since yours also free range, anything they eat while free ranging is considered a 'treat' so they are probably already getting more than their fair share of treats.

It sounds like you are doing the right things with their feed and availability of oyster shell. So if there doesn't appear to be any other underlying causes (stress, worms, mites/lice, etc.) and they are normal otherwise, I would just let it work itself out (based on the vet's advice). Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!

 

[Kiki]

Hi chirstine02. I'm the original poster so I wanted to reply and let you know the outcome...I took my Speckled Sussex who had the problem for about a month to the vet. My Golden Comet started having the same problem a couple of days before our vet appt so I took them both in to see the doctor. He checked them both out (including fecal test) and said they both seemed very healthy. He told me to cut out all treats. AND the calcium citrate I had been giving to my SS. He said that the treats and the calcium is throwing off the delicate nutritional balance they are getting from their feed. He said...Keep it Simple (Stupid...he didn't say that word though ). And can you believe that after that visit, there was only 1 more soft shelled egg?! So it was either coincidental or he was right!

Speckled Sussex is just finishing a hard molt so she hasn't laid in over a month now. My Golden Comet still lays almost every day and her eggs are back to hard shelled!

One other thing the vet said, since yours also free range, anything they eat while free ranging is considered a 'treat' so they are probably already getting more than their fair share of treats.

It sounds like you are doing the right things with their feed and availability of oyster shell. So if there doesn't appear to be any other underlying causes (stress, worms, mites/lice, etc.) and they are normal otherwise, I would just let it work itself out (based on the vet's advice). Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!

I am so glad you cut out the daily treats.
Good job!

 

[Perris]

Hi chirstine02. I'm the original poster so I wanted to reply and let you know the outcome...I took my Speckled Sussex who had the problem for about a month to the vet. My Golden Comet started having the same problem a couple of days before our vet appt so I took them both in to see the doctor. He checked them both out (including fecal test) and said they both seemed very healthy. He told me to cut out all treats. AND the calcium citrate I had been giving to my SS. He said that the treats and the calcium is throwing off the delicate nutritional balance they are getting from their feed. He said...Keep it Simple (Stupid...he didn't say that word though ). And can you believe that after that visit, there was only 1 more soft shelled egg?! So it was either coincidental or he was right!

Speckled Sussex is just finishing a hard molt so she hasn't laid in over a month now. My Golden Comet still lays almost every day and her eggs are back to hard shelled!

One other thing the vet said, since yours also free range, anything they eat while free ranging is considered a 'treat' so they are probably already getting more than their fair share of treats.

It sounds like you are doing the right things with their feed and availability of oyster shell. So if there doesn't appear to be any other underlying causes (stress, worms, mites/lice, etc.) and they are normal otherwise, I would just let it work itself out (based on the vet's advice). Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!

for future reference, you might like to know that Vit D deficiency (needed to metabolize calcium) can lead to a cycle of normal egg, then thin or soft shelled, then reduced production, then back to normal. To fix naturally add cod liver oil @2% (NOT MORE) Or lard (which is 13% vit D, + some choline).

 

[christine02]

Sounds like you are feeding too much daily treats too which means they aren't getting a balanced diet not enough calcium.

I had decided just the day before that I may be overly generous with bribes to get them to re-enter the coop area late afternoon. Albeit, they are all healthy treats. By the way, BSF Larvae stands for Black Soldier Fly. It is protein dense and is alleged to have 5 times the calcium of mealworms. I can't tell the difference between the two. There are always separate containers freely available for both grit and oyster shell calcium. I don't think they care for the chunkier oyster shell. The flaked kind should arrive today. It doesn't seem possible that any of my hens should lack calcium. My other Easter Egger has shells so hard it takes a good crack to break. I have been waiting to see if Molly's shell application process gets straightened out. I think only about 1/3 of her eggs are good. None of them have had strong shells like some of my others. I am not yet on board with the idea of 16% protein layer feed. For the sake of my rooster I had recently started mixing layer feed with starter/grower. I will be looking for a superior, organic feed to see them through the winter. Thank you for your reply.

You should start your own "thread" so it doesn't get confusing for replies ... What is BSF?

I'm not fond of Dumor, which I tried years ago. I feed Purina has a Flock Raiser (20%) which I feed with Oyster Shells (free feed) 100%, not mixed with coral nor sea shells. Young layers do have some egg/laying issues so give them some time. Since you know it's Molly, you could give her some calcium carbonate tablet or even Tums.

You could also put them on Starter/Grower feed with the OS free feed. Mines didn't do well with the Oyster Shells (pebbles) that were mixed with coral, never tried the sea shell mix. Have always used the Crushed Oyster Shells (100%) until Covid. Then the feeds stores here only sold the "pebbles", I finally found where I could order the "original" COS.

Thank you for directing me to the better way to post on the forum. I just joined yesterday after months of knowing I wanted to join a forum. This problem forced my hand.

I'm not all that fond of Dumor either. I did try one bag of Purina Flock Raiser from TSC. They seemed to like it but I haven't seen it at TSC since then. Supplies of everything are sort of catch as you can since Covid. I also bake their used shells at 250 degrees for 12 minutes or so, grind them in a food processor and cast what I don't put in my garden into areas in which they feed. I know experienced chicken keepers who do this. Some people recommend that you don't do this. I have no problem with hens pecking eggs. I will also order Calcium Carbonate as opposed to the citrate I have here. Carbonate is probably more suitable for their needs. Yesterday late I had my first chicken with a crop problem. That delayed my reply. We can feel free to end this chat, so I don't confuse the thread anymore. Thanks for your patience.

 

[christine02]

for future reference, you might like to know that Vit D deficiency (needed to metabolize calcium) can lead to a cycle of normal egg, then thin or soft shelled, then reduced production, then back to normal. To fix naturally add cod liver oil @2% (NOT MORE) Or lard (which is 13% vit D, + some choline).

Very interesting about all important Vitamin D deficiency being a cause of intermittent shell production issues. I'm not clear on how you add cod liver oil to feed since oils do become rancid. Can I get away with making a week's worth of feed at a time? Also, how much choline?

I stopped by our local Food Lion a few days ago and asked the meat manager if they were allowed to give away quality meat scraps and some fat. He gave me a 2 1/2 lb. package of mainly lard with some rib meat attached and said to ask for more any time I liked. That lard could be used with scratch grains to form a pecking toy for the chickens during the most inclement winter weather.

Molly hasn't had a shell-less egg for 5 days, but her shells are never as hearty as that of the other girls. One of my golden comets who has always laid big, beautiful eggs laid this bizarre "jelly egg" with a giant tail. Today she laid a normal egg that had a thinner shell than usual. At least 1/3 of her eggs have had double yolks and I didn't know if that was a factor in her egg laying machinery. I can't visually see worms and still haven't found time to buy a microscope. I dissect a poop sample from each one of them once a week. Next week I am going to de-worm the entire flock to with one of the standard de-worming products to strengthen them for the winter, and just discard the eggs for two weeks. I have been relying on food grade DE mixed into the feed as well as occasional red pepper and other natural spices and herbs. They always have access to Oregano, Thyme, Lemon Balm, and other herbs. They love their herbs! The herb in their diet is what I think sets my eggs apart from those of hens that only had commercial feed.

For several days now I have curtailed their free- ranging because bugs are virtually gone. I keep them in the run area later in the morning before letting them out and bring them in earlier, forcing them to eat more of their standard chicken feed. Free ranging had the advantage of almost eliminating testiness in the flock.

 

[Perris]

I'm not clear on how you add cod liver oil to feed since oils do become rancid. Can I get away with making a week's worth of feed at a time? Also, how much choline?

Once a fortnight or thereabouts I cut open a human cod liver oil capsule and pour it over their feed just before serving (which here is fermented whole grains, mostly wheat). You can get away with all sorts, but healthy birds eat fresh food. The choline is in lard already.

He gave me a 2 1/2 lb. package of mainly lard with some rib meat attached and said to ask for more any time I liked. That lard could be used with scratch grains to form a pecking toy for the chickens

Indeed it could. Again I would use fresh, and start now, not wait for inclement weather (this is for fixing a vit D deficiency, irrespective of the weather). Each chicken will stop eating it when they've had enough.

I can't visually see worms and still haven't found time to buy a microscope. I dissect a poop sample from each one of them once a week. Next week I am going to de-worm the entire flock to with one of the standard de-worming products

If you see no signs of worms, why are you treating for them? Would you do chemotherapy just in case you've got cancer? I haven't wormed my flock for years. They've laid 950 eggs for me this year, plus 3 went broody and raised 12 chicks.

forcing them to eat more of their standard chicken feed

I know this is the advice you've been getting from others. I wouldn't.

Free ranging had the advantage of almost eliminating testiness in the flock

So they were happier free ranging. What more do you need to know?

 

[theoldchick]

https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/l...ch phosphorous,their bone reserves of calcium.

 

[christine02]

Once a fortnight or thereabouts I cut open a human cod liver oil capsule and pour it over their feed just before serving (which here is fermented whole grains, mostly wheat). You can get away with all sorts, but healthy birds eat fresh food. The choline is in lard already.

Indeed it could. Again I would use fresh, and start now, not wait for inclement weather (this is for fixing a vit D deficiency, irrespective of the weather). Each chicken will stop eating it when they've had enough.

If you see no signs of worms, why are you treating for them? Would you do chemotherapy just in case you've got cancer? I haven't wormed my flock for years. They've laid 950 eggs for me this year, plus 3 went broody and raised 12 chicks.

I know this is the advice you've been getting from others. I wouldn't.

So they were happier free ranging. What more do you need to know?

 

[christine02]

I will order a fresh supply of cod liver oil today. I appreciate your telling me the amount and frequency. One issue I am experiencing is that there is a wide range of opinions on certain things. For instance, the subject of feed. Several experienced YouTube chicken keepers post the recipes for their feed, giving the exact ratios needed to provide proper nutrition. Personally, I think a whole lot depends on the soil in which something is grown. It makes sense to me that properly stored whole grains must be fresher than milled products. I was fermenting their feed for a while and the chickens love it. But I was occasionally failing at that and had too much waste. Twice I created waste because the ferment needed to be topped off with water and re-stirred. I was too busy and let it go bad. I do intend to start fermenting again.

There are experienced chicken keepers here on this forum that point out that one issue with whole grains is that they may cherry pick the grains they prefer and leave out others. That would, by definition, cause an imbalance in their diet. Near as I can tell we all have to get the help and advice we need while accepting that we may have to experiment according to what is available to us.

Re: Worms: One of my Golden Comets frequently has just a smear of fecal matter on her eggshell. My nesting areas are always clean. No one else shows this problem, and I wonder if she has worms that I cannot detect visually. I really want to take the best care of them that I can. They all eat roughly the same food. If one has worms the rest of them would also. FYI: I got these chickens at TSC in early March 2022. They are almost 9 months old, and I have done minor, natural things to try to keep parasites/worms down. I figure that if one has animals, they need access to a microscope so they can run stoll samples now and then at a bare minimum. But I am weird.

I have slightly reduced their free-range hours because the bugs are almost non-existent since the first freeze. For the first time they have seemed a little hungrier when they bring themselves back home. I want them back in the run area early enough to have time to eat their regular food if they are still hungry. They will free range every day for a minimum of 4-6 hours; more when the days are longer. I guarantee you they prefer worms, bugs, clover, my potted herbs, etc. over their processed food any day of the week. They go just a little distance in various parts of my woods to scratch under old leaves to the rich soil below. They appear especially happy and successful in the woods. I have been told that they are spoiled. It's probably true.

 

[Perris]

one issue with whole grains is that they may cherry pick the grains they prefer and leave out others

have a look at this thread
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/can-the-chick-balance-its-ration.1555475/

I really want to take the best care of them that I can

that is obvious; you're doing a great job

They go just a little distance in various parts of my woods to scratch under old leaves to the rich soil below

there are bugs and other edibles in that soil, and their scratching and pooing on it is making it even better.