Solving the Thermostat Conundum

jabowery

Chirping
9 Years
Oct 26, 2010
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All of the components for a DIY incubator are easy to come by or fabricate except one:

The thermostat.

Before we go further please note, incubator warehouse is out of stock on its $50 thermostat and, for crying out loud how can they be out of stock at that price?

I'm going to explain to you why the incubator warehouse can charge $50 and be sold out even at that high price for a very simple device that you can buy at Walmart for under $20:

You'll note, first of all, that all of the people who buy the cheap "Little Giant" incubator spend an enormous amount of effort getting the temperature right because its built in thermostat is so bad.

The temperature ranges for most of the "off the shelf" thermostats -- we're talking water heaters, household central heating/air conditioning and aquarium heaters -- are just outside the range required for 99.5F degrees. Water heaters don't go that low. Most household central heating thermostats stop at 90F degrees and won't go higher and aquarium heaters about the same.

For the ones that do get to that temperature range (no aquarium heaters do) there are frequently issues with what might be called "bistability":

Once on they won't turn off until the temperature is a certain amount over the target temperature. Once off they won't turn on until a certain amount under the target temperature. This is largely the result of the all-on or all-off nature of most thermostats in combination with the requirement that the thermostat not be starting and stopping power equipment (like air conditioners or furnaces) every few seconds.

One solution to this conundrum is to modify an aquarium heater since it doesn't harm the heating element of the aquarium heater to go on and off frequently. If you're lucky it is one of those that you can take apart (violating the warranty BTW) and adjust the dial so that the temperature range includes 99.5F degrees. Hmmm.... so let's look see at this $15 aquarium heater over at Walmart. Oops... no way to tell if you can get inside to reset its range. In fact, you basically can't tell if you can do this by looking at these things online or even in the store. You have to buy it, void the warranty, try it and then take the financial hit if it isn't one that you can so-modify. But then we're talking about very limited heating power unless you get into the $50 range at which point you're thinking it might not be a bad idea to wait around for incubator warehouse to restock it expensive thermostat.

Up to now, I've been speaking "in general". Just because 90% of the off-the-shelf thermostats out there have one of the above problems doesn't mean they _all_ do. In fact, it is quite likely that _one_ of the off-the-shelf thermostats -- particularly one of the home heating/air conditioning thermostats -- will actually be under $20, take a temperature setting at 99F degrees, say, and not require huge swings around it to turn on and off.

But that requires chapter and verse as to the model and source, doesn't it? I mean like a URL to a page where you can order one of these things.

Does such a beast exist?

For example, might this $10 device do the job?
 
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I bought an Digital AT8001 All Purpose Temperature Controller that I got off E-Bay for $15 and set up this incubator with it:


The container is wrapped, more or less, with an insulated comforter. The white box is there to tilt the incubator as a kind of egg turner during the first couple weeks of incubation (before the eggs are transferred to a warm humid lockdown in a LG incubator).

The AT8001 is at the lower left just next to the white box.


A detail of the AT8001 showing the eggs are at 37.9C -- the dot light indicates power to the heater is on. It will turn off at 38C and it will cool until the temperature hits 37C. This thermostat has 1C hysteresis and 1C increments in setting the temperature. Not exactly what you want for an incubator but its cheap enough I figured I'd try it.



Inside look at the DIY incubator showing the eggs in cartons being tilted one way -- before the white box is shifted to the opposite side tilting the eggs the other way. The light is the heating element. The fan is blowing directly at it. There isn't a lot of heat capacity in the light so when it turns off it stops heating the environment almost instantly.


The fan that blows on the light.



The dark horizontal line is the thermometer probe going inside one of the egg cartons at the bottom.



I label the egg cartons with the date they began incubating so I can rotate them out at day 18.
 
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I have a suspicion that the reason I'm getting low hatch rates with many of the eggs nearly fully developed when I stop the incubation (usually at day 24 or 25) is that the temperature in the incubator is too low for those eggs despite the AT8001 reporting temperatures between 37C and 38C continuously. Perhaps the AT8001 is miscalibrated -- they do have a configuration parameter you can set to adjust it -- or perhaps the temperature in the incubator isn't uniform enough despite the fact that I have a pretty powerful fan going full blast at all times. It seems more likely that the AT8001 is needs to have its baseline temperature reduced so 37C to 38C is the actual temperature range.

Time to do some calibration.
 
I've been getting 80% hatch rates on the last 3 incubator runs started June 2, 4 and 7, with the one started on June 2 having the highest hatch rate of about 23%. Since the June 2 run was exposed to basically the same conditions that the prior runs were exposed to I now think the most likely explanation for the low hatch rate was my egg gathering routine which may have left the eggs for some of the earlier runs outside too long.

Another possibility is that I backed off on the addition of water to the sponges. I had been adding water very frequently and may have water-logged some of the hatchlings.
 
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Thanks, I might get one of these thermostats... I didn't want to mess with the hot water heater one... so mine is on a dimmer which mostly works. I wonder if/how air can circulate through your egg cartons in your incubator.
 
Thanks, I might get one of these thermostats... I didn't want to mess with the hot water heater one... so mine is on a dimmer which mostly works. I wonder if/how air can circulate through your egg cartons in your incubator.
I figured the air flow through the cartons wasn't that important so long as I didn't use the totally enclosed cartons. The main thing is the enclosed fan is really moving the air past the lightbulb so that the temperature is pretty consistent throughout the interior -- that and when the lightbulb goes off there isn't a lot of residual heat left to continue driving the temperature up when it should be going down.

I should add that for lockdown I remove the eggs from the cartons and put them in a Little Giant incubator with sponges under the screen to keep the humidity up. For that I have a separate thermal control and have the usual problems you have with the LG controlling temperature. But I keep it next to me in my office so I can continually monitor the temperature and moisture.
 
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Hi jabowery,

I have one of those thermostats, like your AT8001 except mine is 220V (also from ebay), and I'm getting around 90% hatch rates... Set to 37º low, 38º high.

Although, I think that buying that one you made the same mistake I did
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.. Please forgive and correct me if I'm wrong on this...

If you read the AT8001 specs closely, you'll see: Control precision: 1℃

There are other thermostats off ebay (look exactly like that, roughly the same price tag) that give you: Control precision: 0.1℃

I don't recall the model reference now, but I've seen them on ebay... I think those will be much better for our purpose.

Cheers
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I ordered one of those last week from Amazon, I think it was $14.something with free shipping. Free shipping from China, apparently. It's supposed to be here August 1.
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It supposedly has a precision of 1 degree F, so should be adequate. It'll also go all the way down to 58 degrees, so I can use it on my chest freezer to control fermentation temperature for a few different styles of beer.
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All of the similar thermostats I could find on ebay all had a resolution of .1 degree and accuracy of 1.0 degree which is a little better than what I have been able to manage.

Can I ask... so I don't have to find a wiring for dummies book... if I buy the 110V version can I just wire a normal plug to it and plug it in?
 
After searching, I'm getting different results on this... I'm confused...

The thermostat model in question is the WH7016E, and this is the temperature adjustment/setting accuracy, not the temperature reading/measurement accuracy...

Some vendors say 0.1ºC control accuracy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WH7016E-4-D...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item2a2f473cda

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-WH7016E/dp/B00BVYCZ84

Others say C control accuracy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WH7016E-220...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item33903970fa

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Tem...e=UTF8&qid=1404210829&sr=1-2&keywords=WH7016E

Unless there are different versions(?), I'm guessing this is a vendor listing error, because the "product manual" says 1ºC (http://5mp.eu/fajlok2/pitvill/wh7016e_www.5mp.eu_.pdf).


@ darkbluespace,

Yes... Being the correct voltage for your area, you can just wire a cord/plug to it and plug it in normally.

Cheers
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