St. John's Wort

[seminolewind]

I have never ever said that anyone should not try hypericum. EVER. I've never picked on anyone that did. I've always said people should try everything they can -especially when it comes to Marek's.

I don't know why people twist the words of others to make them seem like they're trolling when they are far from it.

All I've ever said is that I hate seeing anyone feel guilty when it doesn't work . Like in the following quote: and it's not the words of a troll.

"I am constantly on the look for anything that can make a Marek's paralyzed chicken walk again. My interest in this thread is that many times I read that people take the blame on themselves for SJW not working. Such as the wrong concentration , etc. Even Walleywaller seems to doubt her choice of sjw hypericum brand.

"

 

[chooks4life]

Interesting article. But I can't find what status these people are, I can't find anything that says Doctor, or Head of some Scientific department.

Check the sources.

I am constantly on the look for anything that can make a Marek's paralyzed chicken walk again. My interest in this thread is that many times I read that people take the blame on themselves for SJW not working. Such as the wrong concentration , etc. Even Walleywaller seems to doubt her choice of sjw hypericum brand.

It's natural enough to feel bad over theoretical failures, but it's also an entirely reasonable doubt in this area. Very touchy subject, lots of emotional distress involved. I don't believe you're trolling, myself, but can see how your stance on it could be interpreted that way.

I read the whole article and found that there was very little mention of large groups of people involved as the test-ees. It appears that sjw can slightly improve antibiotic treatment of skin wounds. But the % increase from SJW is not mentioned.

It's a write-up, a condensed and derivative article based on numerous studies. When looking for info I found many studies involving large groups of people, on other sites, but the other articles were very scientific and I thought probably of less use and accessibility in this context, so didn't share them.

I have to question any article that states one herb can improve Alzheimer's, tumors, depression, bacterial infections, amnesia, startle response in people with Huntington's desease and schizophrenia, help addicts because it's equivalent to Clonidine for opium withdrawal, and assist in battling certain types of virus in AIDS and the flu.

Questioning is good. When in doubt, check the sources, and check the trials themselves, and make up your own mind based on the evidence you see.

My own research into nutrition and the chemical properties of plants has led me to stop automatically dismissing what used to seem far-fetched claims of multiple seemingly freakishly potent actions, as I always used to when far more ignorant than I am these days. Every single nutrient has multiple powerful actions.

The science is provided in support of the claims made, all one has to do is track the original studies they cite.

...exposing tumor cells to Hypericum and irradiation light can disable a few tumor cells, like fight cancer with positive results, but the results are probably too small to list, or "further research is needed". -How can I expose tumors to Hypericum and Irradiation light outside a petrie dish?

That was not the pertinent part of the article, nor is it the main method of tumor/cancer destruction by Hypericum.

I know of ways to fight cancer, but radiation and chemo are far too expensive for my chickens and their health insurance won't cover it.

Have you tried fighting the Marek's tumors using these ways?

There are world renowned Researchers that have extensively studied Marek's, one is Karel, another is Schat.

What sort of experimental medicines did they try? Or did they just study the pathology?

I just don't like anything that tends to make well meaning people guilty when the hypericum doesn't work.

The frontier of any experimental medicine is fraught with guilt and doubts and questions and moral/ethical judgments, but the more people try to protect against potential emotional harm as the main priority, the less likely we are to actually find solutions. Once they're symptomatic you don't have any options aside from culling, with most of them. Clearly people have to try something.

I'm completely sure that the average user of this forum is intelligent enough to know that trying a herb they hear about on the internet is generally not considered endorsed nor proven medicine; however, the situation with Marek's is dire enough and urgent enough for them to be forced to either take risks or just sit back and watch them die. It's no use to caution against trying experimental medicine once the birds are dying of Marek's and officially there is 'nothing to be done'. Good intentions can end up being received negatively sometimes or even be counterproductive.

Anyway, I'm sure your attempts to comfort some folks here, or assuage their doubts, are well received and helpful, even if others don't feel the need.

Best wishes.

 

[seminolewind]

Chooks, I appreciate your reply. This is a very emotionally charged subject. I, too, am desperate, pulling my hair out, and So sad about what this disease has done to my flock. My intentions were not to dissuade anyone from trying Hypericum, just trying to support those who feel it's their fault that the hypericum didn't work, such as maybe they didn't do the treatment the right way. I have cried my eyes out too many times to criticize anyone from trying anything. I see my intent was misunderstood by some. Maybe it's cleared up a bit now with your replies to what I posted.

 

[chicknmania]

I have never ever said that anyone should not try hypericum. EVER. I've never picked on anyone that did. I've always said people should try everything they can -especially when it comes to Marek's.

I don't know why people twist the words of others to make them seem like they're trolling when they are far from it.

All I've ever said is that I hate seeing anyone feel guilty when it doesn't work . Like in the following quote: and it's not the words of a troll.

"I am constantly on the look for anything that can make a Marek's paralyzed chicken walk again. My interest in this thread is that many times I read that people take the blame on themselves for SJW not working. Such as the wrong concentration , etc. Even Walleywaller seems to doubt her choice of sjw hypericum brand.

"

It's not meant to be "highly emotional". Just stating the facts. People always feel guilty when they can't save their pets. Myself included. If they want to try ANYTHING, it doesn't have to based on some intellectual article, that's all. Not everything on the internet is solid gold truth. My personal experience with Hypericum has been good, and I'm sorry not everyone can say the same. But I've had bad luck with other things that other people on here swear by. Poultry medicine overall is a very inexact science, imo. I don't think anyone knows all the facts, veterinarians and poultry experts included. People never used to care if their chickens lived or were healthy.. Now poultry is one of the hottest, if not THE hottest, fad pet around. So my philosophy is, just do your best, and know you tried. That's all anyone can do. And sometimes there are pleasant surprises.

 

[chooks4life]

It's a very charged subject for sure. I reckon we're all on the same page even if our methods and beliefs are different, we want to find a cure and we sure don't want to lose more chooks to Marek's.

Best wishes to everyone.

 

[tridentk9]

http://behindthemaskmd.com/2014/11/death-of-a-dog/

 

[lablover]

I'd just like to give an update on my 13 week old chick. I posted here not long ago wondering if anyone had success with Hypericum because I suspected my chick had Marek's. The symptoms started early on, though I did not realize it... Weeks ago I noticed the chick limping and moving the leg around like it was asleep. That quickly went away only to come back weeks later and progress very quickly. Within days the chick couldn't stand at all with one leg fixed out in a forward position, with the other tucked underneath.
Just days ago, the chick was very weak, unable to swallow without having strange involuntary movements. Slowly but surely I'm seeing progress. It's vocalizing just a bit (also noticing when the flock leaves the coop despite being separated in a brooder hutch inside the coop), being able to balance on the hocks and using wings for support, preening feathers, and even "settled down" into a nesting position in the hay and tucking it's head back into the wing. It's like night and day from yesterday, especially from just days ago when I wondered if it would make it through the night. Every day now I see improved signs of coordination. Who knows what tomorrow brings for this chick, but all I've done is provide a warm heat lamp, and held the food and water for it. I have ordered the Hypericum, but it has yet to come in.

 

[seminolewind]

I think your chances are best if the chick is eating enough food. So keep her fed!!! I hope she makes it.

 

[lablover]

Thanks seminolewind! That doesn't appear to be a problem right now. She's picking out what she wants, so can't be too hungry!

 

[chickmom22]

We've lost 2 chickens to Mariks disease in the last 3 months (both confirmed by Calif food & drug poultry lab through necropsy.) So when 3rd one began showing the same symptoms (weak legs, walking sideways, wry neck, not eating,) I read through this post, then went to Walmart as health stores were closed. Got SJW in capsule form, opened one and dumped it in 2 tablesoons of pure water. Used glass bowl and plastic spoon (no metal). Gave her 15 drops in eye dropper am and pm. She was dramatically better after 2 days (on the roost, strong wings, walking quite well), so I stopped the treatment. She again was walking crooked so I started treatment again. She began walking well, scratching for bugs in the yard and eating grass. Not back to eating grains yet, but eats some yogurt, oatmeal and ACV in the water. I've treated for 5 days now, so will stop treatment and see how she does. After losing the other two, this truly seems like a miracle. One was sick a month, getting so weak we had her put down, and the other was gone 2 days after we noticed symptoms. They both had internal tumors. So we are amazed at the difference with this treatment and hopeful that she will recover from this horrible disease!