St. John's Wort

[casportpony]

It clear that a couple that post here are happy with their results, which is fine, and I have no problem with people trying different treatments.

What I would like to see is someone post pictures of one with symptoms, then post their daily treatment plan and results. Wouldn't that be great?

-Kathy

 

[chooks4life]

It clear that a couple that post here are happy with their results, which is fine, and I have no problem with people trying different treatments.

What I would like to see is someone post pictures of one with symptoms, then post their daily treatment plan and results. Wouldn't that be great?

-Kathy

Well, if the person that had a vet confirmation hasn't been online in years, they took their answer with them... Case closed, then. Pity.

Don't blame them, one can often get attacked for trying to share an experience, particularly one involving natural remedies. Wonder how many others with potentially valuable info have been hounded off the forum by well-meaning quack-hunters, lol. All the good intentions in the world don't necessarily translate into anything worthwhile if the application of them is faulty... Fine line to tread, trying to find the truth of a matter and proof to support it, while remaining respectful of others and their opinions and experiences. Most people who automatically oppose natural therapies seem to struggle with staying on the right side of that line, unfortunately.

Yes, I most certainly agree, some real confirmation would be great, but while we wait, best to give the benefit of the doubt. Scientifically we now know why SJW could produce results, next we need proven cases, and for that we need people to not be afraid to share experiences.

Best wishes.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

 

[chooks4life]

Would that be an educated guess by a vet or a pcr by a pathologist?

All I saw and said was that someone had a 'vet confirmation' as per Kathy's question before about whether or not it was confirmed by medical testing. Anyone who wants to know whether or not that was an 'educated guess' has to PM the OP, but I wouldn't be surprised if they've unsubscribed from this thread long ago.

"To PM the OP" is so obvious the best thing to do that you shouldn't have wasted your time posting it.

Seems to make sense, except for the part where you asked me, not the OP, lol!

If PM'ing the OP is so obvious, why did myself and others get asked that question, as though we could answer it?

...Hence my repeated pointing out of the obvious. Seemed necessary when people are repeatedly asking others the question only the OP can answer.

Since Kathy's going through the thread from the start she should know for sure but looking at her response to me it appears not, so perhaps you'll have to go back and check it out more thoroughly if you're interested enough.

Kathy is one of the best investigators of heresay I have ever met on this forum. I've always respected the extra time she spends getting to the bottom of things. Perhaps she may not need to check it out more thoroughly.

If she didn't know the answer for sure, perhaps she does need to check it out more thoroughly.

It wasn't ambiguous, but she didn't recall it exactly, so it's a reasonable statement to make.

Best wishes.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I don't see anyone being intimidated and being silent . But there are 2 sides of the coin. On one side there's people sharing their experiences and saying it works, and on the other side - How far has anyone gone to have their experience validated ? All of us want to see this or something else work. With Marek's , I don't think it really matters what works as long as it works, and being natural or unnatural would not even cross my mind when one of my chickens is having symptoms of Marek's. Shoot, if used motor oil worked, I'd be using it.

I have always thought that getting to the truth is most important . I think others would like to know the truth as well. And you can't find it if you never question things. I have always thought that the best decision is an informed one. I would love love love to find that this stuff can help with Marek's symptoms.

 

[chooks4life]

I don't see anyone being intimidated and being silent .

That's a general remark, surely you've seen people hounded into silence on this forum before. I know I have, and many others have as well. It's often people with good intentions hounding them into silence too, thinking they're hunting quacks or witches or something, lol.

But there are 2 sides of the coin. On one side there's people sharing their experiences and saying it works, and on the other side - How far has anyone gone to have their experience validated ?

And here's the edge of the coin --- to what extent do we have a right to require that someone validate their experience or opinion?

This is not a scientific forum and we're not peers reviewing a fellow's research paper, lol.

Very few claims of 'SJW cures Marek's' have been made on this thread, and all have had the lack of absolute proof pointed out (repeatedly and nonstop, in fact it's ongoing... Once or thrice would have been sufficient).

More importantly the legitimate claim of SJW working against neurological disorders has been proven. Surely that's something useful to people with animals suffering this type of disorder, and supports the general intent and subject of this thread, and therefore is relevant, unlike the repeated challenge of something that's been accepted as an unprovable statement many times over already. It's one thing to ask for more info like peer reviewed studies proving claims, it's another thing to dismiss someone's opinion or experience based on lack of it. The thread is becoming clogged with useless posts, unfortunately, making it ever more unlikely that people with animals with neurological disorders, who've heard of SJW being used for them, are going to wade through all this back-and-forth to get the info this thread is supposed to be dedicated to.

People have made some valid points on this thread, and asked some valid questions, there's no issue with that, but there's a limit to how many times you can make the same valid point, or repeat the same valid question which you know isn't going to be answered, before it becomes irrelevant and even counterproductive.

When someone says something we disagree with or doubt, we're free to disbelieve them or respectfully disagree with them, or silently hold it suspect in our own minds, and to point out flaws of methodology or ask for clarification, but we're not free to insist that they give us proof to support their opinion or experience, especially after they've repeatedly made it clear they're only sharing a single personal experience and not claiming it's proof of anything, and have no proof to offer.

Ideally, yes, they will take steps to validate it, but realistically most of us do not have that kind of resources, knowledge, or time at our disposal when desperately trying to save a sick bird. By all means we should raise our concerns and try to clarify a situation, but not persist in being a countering voice on a thread anti to its purpose when we have no proof for or against the subject.

All of us want to see this or something else work. With Marek's , I don't think it really matters what works as long as it works, and being natural or unnatural would not even cross my mind when one of my chickens is having symptoms of Marek's. Shoot, if used motor oil worked, I'd be using it.

I did supply scientific research as to how it works against cancer and neurological disorders; next step is testing it personally I guess.

I have always thought that getting to the truth is most important . I think others would like to know the truth as well. And you can't find it if you never question things. I have always thought that the best decision is an informed one.

This is all true, and valid for sure. Rhetorical questions, questions directed at and only answerable by persons non-present, and questions directed repeatedly at people who've said they have no further info to give, however, don't fall into that category of fact/truth finding questions you refer to. The thread is now quite full of those useless sorts of questions.

I would love love love to find that this stuff can help with Marek's symptoms.

If you read that info I linked to, it details exactly what compounds in it work against neurological issues, tumors, etc. I hope you don't have to try it in future but if you do it'd be great to see if you can validate it.

Best wishes.

 

[tridentk9]

With Marek's ,  I don't think it really matters what works as long as it works, and being natural or unnatural would not even cross my mind when one of my chickens is having symptoms of Marek's.  Shoot, if used motor oil worked, I'd be using it.

I have always thought that getting to the truth is most important .  I think others would like to know the truth as well.  And you can't find it if you never question things.  I have always thought that the best decision is an informed one.  I would love love love to find that this stuff can help with Marek's symptoms.  

There is one well known thing that works with Marek's Disease signs- vaccination. The problem is that it must be done young and before any signs are noted though it does have unintended consequences. But- it does work for the majority of cases so far.

Sigh. I know I feel better about using herbal remedies vs homeopathic remedies. But a lot of it is probably related to a closer similarity to westerm medicine.

Now that I've said that- why would SJW as a herbal remedy and hypericum 30C as a homeopathic remedy be used for the same symptoms?

 

[chooks4life]

Sigh. I know I feel better about using herbal remedies vs homeopathic remedies. But a lot of it is probably related to a closer similarity to westerm medicine.

Now that I've said that- why would SJW as a herbal remedy and hypericum 30C as a homeopathic remedy be used for the same symptoms?

Not an expert on homeopathy lol, but if I understand right, generally homeopathic remedies are used for treating the same symptoms the plant or substance used to make the remedy causes. So, to treat a neuralgic disorder they'd make a homeopathic remedy that uses a substance that causes a neuralgic disorder. Don't know if you knew that, but there you go, just in case.

SJW in natural form supposedly can cause copper poisoning in livestock that eat too much of it if I recall correctly, copper toxicity has neurological symptoms.

Best wishes.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

I'm with you. I feel that not all chicken owners are concerned about my chickens but me. I vaccinate. I don't like suffering. I'm tired of crying. Over half of my flock of 30 is vaccinated. The rest were here before Marek's.

 

[chooks4life]

I'm with you. I feel that not all chicken owners are concerned about my chickens but me. I vaccinate. I don't like suffering. I'm tired of crying. Over half of my flock of 30 is vaccinated. The rest were here before Marek's.

Definitely a good option for some, and certainly understandable enough... Hope it works as intended for you and everyone who chooses that option. Not that it's a guaranteed solution, in which case the subject of this thread may be helpful to some.

Those trying to breed for resistance or choosing not to vaccinate for whatever other reasons, though, don't tend to make their decisions based on a lack of concern for their own chooks, your chooks, or anybody else's. The vaccine is not a true solution, it's basically a bandaid; many researchers directly blame the vaccine for making the disease more virulent. If this trend keeps going, it could potentially decimate domestic chickens as we know them, vaccinated or not, and possibly even wild populations too; besides which, vaccination is not a guarantee you won't lose them to the disease anyway, as you know. You definitely have my sympathy for your losses, but when I choose to not vaccinate, it's not out of lack of concern for the wellbeing of others' animals, it's out of concern for the true control of the disease as a whole. I can fully understand how that can translate into a perception of me not giving a toss about your suffering, and preserving a constant risk to your stock, it's an unfortunately antagonistic situation regardless of intent.

This thread is intended to be about a method to treat chickens that are already showing Marek's symptoms, but what's been happening here (which you've gotten mixed up in with clearly all the best intentions), is quite like what's happened on the other thread (about breeding for resistance against Marek's) --- having contrary sorts of posts which derail the thread purpose and fill it with posts that serve nobody.

(Note... I'm not referring here to you or tridentk9 recommending vaccination, it's a valid suggestion even if not necessarily pertinent to the subject of birds showing symptoms already... By the time someone's read up on Marek's enough to realize that may be what their bird has, and has come seeking info on SJW vs Marek's type symptoms, I'm sure they have learned vaccination is the main method of handling it, and needs to be done young or pre-symptoms anyway for a majority of effective results.)

I'm sorry, I'm not usually such a stickler for threads remaining on-topic, and for sure it's not my job to make sure they do, but it's gotten a little exasperating that every single thread about seeking options/experiences/information regarding coping with current cases of Marek's seems to get derailed spectacularly, for many pages in a row, by the exact same sorts of thought patterns which are most often counter to the thread subject at best, and at worst sometimes far more unhelpful than that. That's what all my previous few posts were about, in a nutshell. Wish I were better at being succinct.

People are trying to test and find solutions for birds that are already symptomatic here, and instead we've got things going on like private investigations into the veracity of their claims, lol... Surely there's a time and place for everything but that doesn't need to subjugate the purpose of the thread and challenge everyone's experience due to lack of concrete proof.

Anyway... Hopefully this thread can finally get back to subject again: people sharing info and experiences regarding trying SJW or Hypericum in chickens showing Marek's type symptoms. (Without any pointless onus to provide solid proof to support their opinions and experiences, but of course if they're able to get some solid proof, that would be really good to see as well).

Best wishes and good luck to everyone and their flocks.