Stock Fencing for Chickens

[21hens-incharge]

Has a survey ever been done? That would show true property lines.

Why is a professional land survey out of the question here? In the USA that is how these things are settled. We have records dating back as long as records exist on the property.

That fence would be a deterrent to keep chickens from crossing but any bantam or LF chicken could very easily jump that fence. Even with clipped wings.

Years ago I fenced in my flock using electrified poultry netting that is 42" tall. My gates are constructed of 48" high braced wood frames to hold 1/2" hardware cloth and the frames are hinged to wood posts. All of my LF chickens flew up to the tops of the gates and jumped out when I first enclosed them.

I clipped the primary feathers of one wing on each bird using the old "it will throw them off balance" malarky. They all jumped out again.

I clipped the primary feathers of the second wing. The majority of them still jumped out including the big line backer rooster. He's no nimble ballerina.

I then clipped into the secondary feathers of one wing of the ones that were still jumping the fence and STILL had 4 out of the 12 that were jumping out!!

So... that little garden fence would be extremely easy for the birds to jump over. Especially all the breeds shown in the pictures. Which are very cool by the way!

I agree 100%.

That fence wouldn't even slow down most medium or large breed dogs let alone the chickens in the photos.

 

[GGx]

Why is a professional land survey out of the question here? In the USA that is how these things are settled. We have records dating back as long as records exist on the property.

That fence would be a deterrent to keep chickens from crossing but any bantam or LF chicken could very easily jump that fence. Even with clipped wings.

Years ago I fenced in my flock using electrified poultry netting that is 42" tall. My gates are constructed of 48" high braced wood frames to hold 1/2" hardware cloth and the frames are hinged to wood posts. All of my LF chickens flew up to the tops of the gates and jumped out when I first enclosed them.

I clipped the primary feathers of one wing on each bird using the old "it will throw them off balance" malarky. They all jumped out again.

I clipped the primary feathers of the second wing. The majority of them still jumped out including the big line backer rooster. He's no nimble ballerina.

I then clipped into the secondary feathers of one wing of the ones that were still jumping the fence and STILL had 4 out of the 12 that were jumping out!!

So... that little garden fence would be extremely easy for the birds to jump over. Especially all the breeds shown in the pictures. Which are very cool by the way!

We've had three RICS Chartered Land Surveyor land surveys. They've discredited the surveyors, claimed they were not independently appointed and their findings biased in our favour. Honestly, these people will stop at nothing, even lie in court.

In the UK, the history of our properties is so old dating back hundreds of years to when they were tied properties and the landowner (usually a farmer) divvied up his land between his tenants. They only marked general boundaries without specific measurements, because they owned all the land. The UK is kooky like that. We have hundreds of thousands of boundary disputes over here.

UK judges are so sick of boundary disputes that they even try to stop the victims from fighting back against land theft by refusing to award any more than 50% of their legal costs, even if they win the case. So most people just give up and hand over the land to the thieves or pay them money to make it stop. It's extortion of course, but it works, people use fake boundary disputes to extort tens of thousands from their neighbours.

Wow... that is exactly what I suspected. The idea that that fence was put in to contain chickens is absolute nonsense.

Do you know the breeds in those photos?

Would you be prepared to write a statement for us? First, you could state your history of raising chickens, explaining to the judge what qualifies your opinion as professional and legitimate, and then what you have put in this message. It's exactly what we need. I'd be so so grateful.

GGx

 

[GGx]

Has a survey ever been done? That would show true property lines.



I agree 100%.

That fence wouldn't even slow down most medium or large breed dogs let alone the chickens in the photos.

Hi 21hens-incharge, isn't that the point as well? That fences aren't just to keep chickens in but predators out?

If they still had chickens next door, my dogs would be going nuts. And my boy may be getting on in years now, but in his youth, he could have flown over that fence.

Of course, once inside, he wouldn't have known what to do with the chickens. He caught a baby rabbit on a walk once, held it gently in his mouth and then looked up at us as if to ask, 'what do you want me to do with this?' We took the little thing out of his mouth and sent it hopping on its way!!!

 

[21hens-incharge]

Where I live (middle of the United States) the complainant would have to prove they had been doing all the maintenance on the disputed property for years. I don't recall the number of years but it is several.

Them demanding structures be torn down and windows on the human house be bricked over is absolutely ridiculous to me.

My elderly neighbors recently went through a property dispute. They hired tree trimmers and since they had been maintaining a 10'x100' section for 45+ years were truly blown away when their other neighbor came running out yelling at the tree trimming crew about his trees. It turns out he indeed owns that section. A survey cleared up the confusion. I just wish he could be required to pay for all those years of mowing, trimming and watering they old couple had been doing.
It was a clear situation of them simply not knowing exactly where that property line was.
They have begun putting in a fence.

 

[Yardmom]

These disputes can happen in the US as well. Adverse possession has nothing to do with where property boundaries are. Adverse possession is when someone uses land that isn't theirs so long that it actually becomes theirs. Different states have different rules about how long that is and what determines use. A Professional Land Surveyor would show where boundaries were intended if the evidence still exists. Lawyers ect. would prove land use. A judge would determine who actually owns what land. If the land has been used X(determine by state) number of years by someone other than the original owner the actual ownership of the land can change.
With OP the purpose of the fence is what might help determine who built the fence and if land beyond the fence was used by either party.
It is not really how well the chickens would be contained by it.
In the US if a fence of any type exists and property markers can not be found on the property or neighboring properties. There would need to be very good evidence that the fence was located off of the property line for it not to be used as the property line Not only is adverse possession but in a boundary survey as well.

(Married to a PLS)

 

[GGx]

These disputes can happen in the US as well. Adverse possession has nothing to do with where property boundaries are. Adverse possession is when someone uses land that isn't theirs so long that it actually becomes theirs. Different states have different rules about how long that is and what determines use. A Professional Land Surveyor would show where boundaries were intended if the evidence still exists. Lawyers ect. would prove land use. A judge would determine who actually owns what land. If the land has been used X(determine by state) number of years by someone other than the original owner the actual ownership of the land can change.
With OP the purpose of the fence is what might help determine who built the fence and if land beyond the fence was used by either party.
It is not really how well the chickens would be contained by it.
In the US if a fence of any type exists and property markers can not be found on the property or neighboring properties. There would need to be very good evidence that the fence was located off of the property line for it not to be used as the property line Not only is adverse possession but in a boundary survey as well.

(Married to a PLS)

I wish that were the case here in the UK. We know the precise location of the fence (its post is still there). Our problem is they're trying to claim they owned all the stuff on the other side of it fifty years ago!

 

[DobieLover]

Would you be prepared to write a statement for us? First, you could state your history of raising chickens, explaining to the judge what qualifies your opinion as professional and legitimate, and then what you have put in this message. It's exactly what we need. I'd be so so grateful.

Sure. How do you want it? In a word doc? If so, you can start a conversation with me to give me your email address and I can send it to you that way. I don't believe we can attach such things in the forum.
@21hens-incharge is equally if not more qualified to provide a statement as well if she wishes due to her longer time keeping chickens.
One other thing that may actually help is we both hold Educator badges. These are awarded by the staff here at BYC.

 

[GGx]

21hens-incharge: it is ridiculous. Some of their claims are even logistically impossible on the ground. It doesn't stop them screwing shut our garden gates, digging up our garden path, or coming around to threaten us.

I feel your neighbours' pain, I really do.



FOR FUTURE REFERENCE (TO SAVE EVERYONE'S TIME)

Please all go ahead and have a healthy discussion about the ins and outs of boundary disputes, I wouldn't want to stop you.

As the OP, I don't need assistance with the boundary dispute itself. I've lived it for six years and have already completed all the pre-action protocols (like surveys) for court. I am already a very long way down this road.

After six years, I know as much as my solicitor and barrister about boundary disputes, adverse possession, proprietary estoppel, and so on. I've even written a book on it and my solicitor has suggested I go and work for him (heaven forbid - when this is over I never want to hear the words boundary dispute ever again).

I just need help with stock fencing for chickens and a volunteer who'd be prepared to write a statement for the court about the viability of that fence for containing chickens and protecting them from predators.

But as I say, fill yer boots, as we say over here: chat away between yourselves on the ins and outs of boundary disputes if it floats your boat!

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the help.
GGx

 

[GGx]

Sure. How do you want it? In a word doc? If so, you can start a conversation with me to give me your email address and I can send it to you that way. I don't believe we can attach such things in the forum.
@21hens-incharge is equally if not more qualified to provide a statement as well if she wishes due to her longer time keeping chickens.
One other thing that may actually help is we both hold Educator badges. These are awarded by the staff here at BYC.

OH WOW!!!

Thank you SO much. And that's great on the Educator badges, that's definitely something you should reference.

I'm truly grateful, thank you. I'll start a conversation and yes, Word is fine.

GGx

 

[GGx]

With OP the purpose of the fence is what might help determine who built the fence and if land beyond the fence was used by either party.
It is not really how well the chickens would be contained by it.

Yardmom, you are absolutely BANG ON.

That is the whole point. The chickens escaping and wandering over our land cannot be used as adverse possession and they'd be idiots to suggest that.

However, if they claim it was put in solely as a stock fence when it isn't a stock fence and would serve no purpose as one, it completely undermines their claim and raises doubt that they put the fence in at all. And that's what court is really about.

GGx