Telling blue from lavender and olandsk dwarf chickens

[ChicksnMore]

I was given some birds recently that I was told were lavender by someone I trust to know their colors. I'm totally new to the lavender color. I do know the birds breed true. I also know that these birds do have some darker greys and reds showing and I just finished reading that if it breeds true its lavender and blues do not breed true, if its lavender it will show no reds, and poultrykeeper.com had an article saying that Blue-Silver and Coronation Wyandottes are blues that breed true. I couldn't find a lot of information on those birds either but am confused and want to learn more.

I'd love to hear from people about their experiences with blues and lavenders. How do you tell blues from lavender? Can blue breed true? Can lavender express red or charcoal? Is there a favorite source for color genetics in chickens?

The chickens I got are Olansk Dwarfs and I can't find any pictures of lavender or blue in that breed, although I do know lavenders were imported here a while back. My friend I got these from passed away and willed me these birds so I can't talk to her to find out more or explore thoughts on blue versus lavender. I do know she was an avid chicken fancier who bred with care and kept her dwarfs separated by color type. I also know that she bred these for years and that she had some birds from the original importers. Although I don't know which birds of which color. Theres not a lot of good information out there on this breed. If anyone knows of any good resources on them, especially on the color genetics for dwarfs, I'd sure love to have it. Does anyone have pictures of lavender dwarfs?
I'm in love with these birds and want to keep them around for my pleasure, regardless of color...but I'm very curious now. She was my go-to chicken lady for all my questions for years and years.

 

[nicalandia]

Regular colored Olansk Dwarfs

Lavender diluted Mottled on a red/gold background (AKA Porcelain pattern)

Blue diluted Millie Fleur pattern

 

[ChicksnMore]

Regular colored Olansk Dwarfs

View attachment 2994916


Lavender diluted Mottled on a red/gold background (AKA Porcelain pattern)
View attachment 2994920


Blue diluted Millie Fleur pattern
View attachment 2994922


View attachment 2994924

Mine are so blue....lol. That porcelain is such pretty colors. Well, my friend was a joy and so are her birds anyhow! Can't wait to hatch some to see how they breed cause surely they can't breed true no matter what she thought. Wondering if the charcoal hen she had as lavender is actually a black or a splash then. They're all splash but, you know. It's the only hen that dark marked lavender.
Thank you for the pics.

 

[NatJ]

and poultrykeeper.com had an article saying that Blue-Silver and Coronation Wyandottes are blues that breed true. I couldn't find a lot of information on those birds either but am confused

When the lavender gene was discovered, it took people a while to decide what to call it, and how to tell it apart from blue. At one point, people were calling them "self-blue" and "Andalusian blue." The "self-blue" was the one that bred true (what we're now calling lavender.) The "Andalusian blue" was the one found in the Andalusian breed of chicken, that does not breed true, (that we can just call "blue," now that the other one is called lavender.)

Coronation Sussex have lavender, not blue. Coronation Wyandottes would probably be the same.

Blue-Silver is not one I'm familiar with, but it would need to either have lavender (breeds true) or blue (does not breed true.)

 

[ChicksnMore]

When the lavender gene was discovered, it took people a while to decide what to call it, and how to tell it apart from blue. At one point, people were calling them "self-blue" and "Andalusian blue." The "self-blue" was the one that bred true (what we're now calling lavender.) The "Andalusian blue" was the one found in the Andalusian breed of chicken, that does not breed true, (that we can just call "blue," now that the other one is called lavender.)

Coronation Sussex have lavender, not blue. Coronation Wyandottes would probably be the same.

Blue-Silver is not one I'm familiar with, but it would need to either have lavender (breeds true) or blue (does not breed true.)

I did some more reading and came across a post on here saying the coronation Wyandotte are lavender, so I went back to the poultrykeeper article and re-read it. I mis-read it the first time...they were actually saying that blues valued in some birds because it doesn't wash out the reds but lavender is perfect in birds like the those two. They went from talking blues to lavender without re-saying lavender and I must of been reading too fast....lol. I wonder if it's possible for birds to carry or show both colors and what that'd look like.

 

[NatJ]

I wonder if it's possible for birds to carry or show both colors

Yes

and what that'd look like.

I'm guessing they would look about like lavender, but I don't know for sure.

 

[ChicksnMore]

Yes


I'm guessing they would look about like lavender, but I don't know for sure.

Lol...that makes sense eh. There's so many recessive genes that can mask all other colors when paired up, like white in ducks. Blue must not be that way since it throws mixed babies and lavender must be that way because it breeds true? Sorry if that's a stupid question...I haven't read about color genetics in years and years now and have forgotten most of what I had learned.

 

[ChicksnMore]

Ok...I think I get it. So splash bred to blue gives 50% blue and 50% splash. So with the dwarfs being splash, all the breedings are splash bred to blue so it appears to breed true though it's not actually true?

I'll have to read about the splash and mille fleur genes too since all the birds are splash regardless of base colors. Hmm...and I should probably read how blue works in those d'uccles.

These all have some all white feathers, some all black or blue feathers, some white tipped feathers and some black or blue tipped feathers and then a basic color besides that...all on one bird. I think...lol. I better go take another closer look at the birds to figure out what all I'm seeing so I know what I need to try to learn about.

My first batch of blue babies just hatched but all I can tell at this point is that they're all chipmunky babies.

 

[NatJ]

Ok...I think I get it. So splash bred to blue gives 50% blue and 50% splash. So with the dwarfs being splash, all the breedings are splash bred to blue so it appears to breed true though it's not actually true?

Something like that, yes.

The blue gene is incompletey dominant, and it affects black but mostly not red/gold colors.
So one copy of the blue gene turns black into blue.
Two copies of the blue gene turns black into splash.
Splash can breed true, because they are pure for the blue gene.
Black can breed true, because they are pure for the not-blue gene.
But a blue chicken has one copy of blue and one of not-blue, so it can pass either one to its chicks.

(Note, when I was saying "black," I meant not-blue. There are lots of other genes that cause or affect black on a chicken, and it can get horribly confusing! So in this context, a "black" chicken might be black all over, or it might have black lacing on a gold or silver background, or it might be Mille Fleur colored, or it might just have a black tail on an otherwise red chicken. Each of those chickens could have the black turned into blue or splash.)

I'll have to read about the splash and mille fleur genes too since all the birds are splash regardless of base colors. Hmm...and I should probably read how blue works in those d'uccles.

These all have some all white feathers, some all black or blue feathers, some white tipped feathers and some black or blue tipped feathers and then a basic color besides that...all on one bird. I think...lol. I better go take another closer look at the birds to figure out what all I'm seeing so I know what I need to try to learn about.

I think they all have the mottling gene, but only some have splash (two copies of the blue gene.)

Mottling is recessive, so it's easy to have a flock where all birds show the effect of that gene.

The mottling gene causes a white tip on each feather, then a black portion of the feather, and then the color of the rest of the feather is determined by whatever other genes the chicken has. (And then some feathers fail to follow that pattern, just to keep us guessing.)

So if you start with an all-black chicken and add mottling, you get white tips on the feathers, and then the black portion looks just like the black on the rest of the feathers. Chickens that look like that get called "mottled." But if you start with a Buff Columbian chicken (mostly gold, with black on the neck and tail), mottling will make the white tips, and the black sections, and then leave gold on the rest of each feather-- making it a Mille Fleur chicken.

On a Mille Fleur, the black part of the feathers can be affected by any gene that affects black. So adding the blue gene makes a Blue Mille Fleur, or adding the Dominant White gene makes a color called Golden Neck (turns the black to white.)

The gold part of the feathers can be affected by any gene that affects gold. You can have a Silver Mille Fleur (white instead of gold), or darker or lighter shades of gold (Speckled Sussex have mottling like Mille Fleurs do, but have a dark red instead of gold, along with a few other genetic differences.)

And a Mille Fleur can have genes that affect both black and gold, like the lavender gene (which makes it into a Porcelain.)

My first batch of blue babies just hatched but all I can tell at this point is that they're all chipmunky babies.

They sound really cute. I love chicks with chipmunk stripes!

 

[ChicksnMore]

Thank you for the easy to understand reply!

I think you're right that they're all mottled with only some carrying splash. Splash is black feathers scattered here and there or can other colors splash? When I went out and looked closer, all the birds have the white tip with black and base color like you described and only some have the all black feathers scattered here and there.

Dominant white must be in there somewhere to as some of the birds have heavily white heads and chests?

...like this little guy. This is the same baby I posted pics of already...just a little older. His chest is almost all white now and it looks like his head will be white with a few orange feathers and a sprinkling of blue.

I've been reading some genetic sites recommended in other posts and was amazed to see how complex chicken genetics are. At this point I'm definitely struggling to remember it all, let alone understand it all and how it ties to my birds.