The Buckeye Thread

[slfarms]

Buckeye chickens. Roos or hens. Is it as easy as looking at comb? Do hens have the green tail feathers at 8 or so weeks of age? We may have picked nearly all roos.

Bottom photo is a roo. Top photo far left bird is roo and the one next to him is a Pullet.

Another way to tell is hackle/saddle feathers on males will be more pointed. Pullets rounded.

 

[BuckeyeFan]

Bad feeling that 10 of 12 day olds we got are roos. Lots of red combs and green tail feathers

 

[AinaWGSD]

Buckeye chickens. Roos or hens. Is it as easy as looking at comb? Do hens have the green tail feathers at 8 or so weeks of age? We may have picked nearly all roos.

At this point in development, the combs are a pretty good indicator. Sometimes the pullets can have green tail feathers, so color of the feathers is not a reliable indicator. The shape of the feathers on the other hand is. The picture with just one chick is clearly a cockerel. The picture with 4 birds, only two of them are still/in focus/complete enough to tell for sure; the one on the left is definitely cockerel, right is definitely pullet. The one on the bottom of that picture is too blurry to hazard a guess, but judging by the saddle feathers of the one on the top I would strongly suspect cockerel (though without being able to see the head I couldn't be sure).

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Can you post individual pictures of each bird so we can give you an accurate count?

 

[Minniechickmama]

It does appear that your estimation is correct. Also, your pullet has a single comb and not something you want to breed if you want to keep the Buckeye qualities true. Sorry, but you will have some birds to put in the freezer from the extra boys.

 

[A Nonny Moose]

510 lbs Corn
315 lbs Roasted Soy Beans
50 lbs Rolled Steamed Oats
50 lbs Alfalfa Meal
13 lbs Aragonite
30 lbs Poultry Nutri-Balancer
135 lbs Fish Meal

The above is 22% protein.

J.R. Hatch
J Squared Farms
jsqauredfarms.com

 

[alana124]

It's been a week since I wrote about (where I can get quality feed with 22% or more protein) buckeye dietary needs...well, I visited a feed mill 2 hours from me, an outfit run by Mennonites; the facility is really clean, and well organized, and very impressive when compared to the organic outfits I usually buy from. This mill is run by the Mennonites who employ several Mennonite nutritionists who hold PhD's as well as experienced specialists dedicated to the nutritional needs of poultry.

I spoke with one of their specialists, one of the guys who actually formulated the feed, about their poultry starter which has a 21.8% crude protein count. He said to me: You should forget what you were taught in terms of protein, even if it goes against everything you believe is true, because protein count is not the critical factor..what you need to look at are the amino acids...which, I replied: yes, amino acids are the building blocks of life...yes, he said, and a well balanced supply of amino acids (protein being 100% comprised of amino acid) is conducive to good health. But, he said, when people begin questioning the protein count of their starter and change the formula by throwing in or mixing feed comprised of higher crude protein (such as game or turkey starter) it throws the amino acids balance off. He agreed with me that supplementing poultry diets as they grow older with treats such as hard boiled eggs, or meal worms or whatever we choose is the keeper's preference but keep in mind, it only makes the chicken fatter (subcutaneously, I would presume).

I did mention that even with all their good intent, no feed is perfect, but he reassured me that they're always researching and improving their knowledge base to provide the best quality feed, one that has a proven track record that in the end, brings the birds up to the APA SOP standards. I would have to believe him, since the Mennonites have a higher authority to answer to.

Since I switched, my chickens love their new feed and waste very little vs. the organic stuff (which is pulverized to a fine dust) I used to feed them. We'll see how well my chicks grow on this stuff.

Now, if we can only get away from GMO corn...that would make it a perfect world.

But there you have it; just wanted to share my experience with you.

 

[Sydney Acres]

It's been a week since I wrote about (where I can get quality feed with 22% or more protein) buckeye dietary needs...well, I visited a feed mill 2 hours from me, an outfit run by Mennonites; the facility is really clean, and well organized, and very impressive when compared to the organic outfits I usually buy from. This mill is run by the Mennonites who employ several Mennonite nutritionists who hold PhD's as well as experienced specialists dedicated to the nutritional needs of poultry.

I spoke with one of their specialists, one of the guys who actually formulated the feed, about their poultry starter which has a 21.8% crude protein count. He said to me: You should forget what you were taught in terms of protein, even if it goes against everything you believe is true, because protein count is not the critical factor..what you need to look at are the amino acids...which, I replied: yes, amino acids are the building blocks of life...yes, he said, and a well balanced supply of amino acids (protein being 100% comprised of amino acid) is conducive to good health. But, he said, when people begin questioning the protein count of their starter and change the formula by throwing in or mixing feed comprised of higher crude protein (such as game or turkey starter) it throws the amino acids balance off. He agreed with me that supplementing poultry diets as they grow older with treats such as hard boiled eggs, or meal worms or whatever we choose is the keeper's preference but keep in mind, it only makes the chicken fatter (subcutaneously, I would presume).

I did mention that even with all their good intent, no feed is perfect, but he reassured me that they're always researching and improving their knowledge base to provide the best quality feed, one that has a proven track record that in the end, brings the birds up to the APA SOP standards. I would have to believe him, since the Mennonites have a higher authority to answer to.

Since I switched, my chickens love their new feed and waste very little vs. the organic stuff (which is pulverized to a fine dust) I used to feed them. We'll see how well my chicks grow on this stuff.

Now, if we can only get away from GMO corn...that would make it a perfect world.

But there you have it; just wanted to share my experience with you.

Well, yes and no. It's all a matter of how detailed you want to get, and how much you trust the company making your feed.

Of course it's true that the amino acid balance is more important than the total crude protein level when a food is formulated. But there are more than 22 amino acids, and depending on the species, 6-12 of them are "essential," which means that they have to be consumed through food. The others can be made in the body using other amino acids as building blocks. Which ones are essential are different for every species, because each species has its own unique metabolism. So yes, when you have a PhD in nutrition, and your job is to formulate diets for a specific animal, it is absolutely essential that you focus on providing adequate amounts of each essential amino acid, in the right balance, as much or even more so than the total protein. I totally agree.

However, the average consumer does not have a PhD in nutrition. And no company that I know of provides the data for even the essential amino acids on their feed labels, much less the non-essential ones. I feel lucky to even find lysine and methionine levels listed, which are critical in poultry. So even though total protein percentage is a very crude and potentially very inaccurate method of determining if the food has adequate nutrition, it's what's available to us on the label. So here's where you need to trust your food manufacturer to balance your food properly. Because all we're given is the protein level, and we have to trust that the company's nutritionist took care of the underlying details properly.

Years ago there was a print advertisement for one of the large national premium dog foods. It had examples of four different "guaranteed analysis" labels, with pictures of the ingredients needed to attain those levels. The guaranteed analysis levels were all very similar, and each successive example had pictures of a different mix of a various meats, grains, etc., along with percentages of protein, fat, fiber, etc But the fourth example was the real kicker -- it had the same basic protein, fat, fiber, etc levels as all the rest, except that the picture beside it was of an old mangled leather boot, a chunk of wood, and some old crankcase oil.

Bottom line -- guaranteed analysis is only useful if the ingredients are of good quality, useful for the purpose that the product is intended (some species can digest things that others can't), and the manufacturer is trustworthy. How you decide who to trust is always a matter of debate, with no attainable answer.

 

[alana124]

Totally agree, Sydney Acres, because as mentioned by a dairy farmer I know, and who's in the same boat as poultry keepers, finding quality feed is a crap shoot at best. Like she said, we're at the mercy of these feed mills / stores, and all we can do is keep, or try to keep ahead of their game...it sucks.

 

[Jeff Lay]

510 lbs Corn
315 lbs Roasted Soy Beans
50 lbs Rolled Steamed Oats
50 lbs Alfalfa Meal
13 lbs Aragonite
30 lbs Poultry Nutri-Balancer
135 lbs Fish Meal

The above is 22% protein.

J.R. Hatch
J Squared Farms
jsqauredfarms.com

That's a very good "formula" you use Mr. J.R. Hatch!!! Great for those Buckeyes, say hello to the Mrs. for me!!!

I was wondering if you guys were still breeding and showing out there in the "Show Me" state???