The Calico/Aloha/Mottled Naked Neck Thread

[Kassaundra]

This is Pie, likely my next head roo





I have one true mottled girl and several I think carry that he should really bring out the mottling in those ones.

Does this guy look like he has mottling hiding anywhere?

 

[draye]

This is Pie, likely my next head roo I have one true mottled girl and several I think carry that he should really bring out the mottling in those ones. Does this guy look like he has mottling hiding anywhere?

I want some PIE! I really would like some fertile eggs from him. Later though. The other guy does look like he may have some mottling.

 

[Kev]

I don't know the cause, but I can tell you if you want it, use RED solid NN's to get it.

Color howed up easily after an infusion of New Hamspshire Red.

Breeds easily!

I've been reading a little bit on mille pattern. So far as I understand it... the lack of the black bar is due to genes that repress the black pigments. I suspected it but someone brought up the fact if you use buffs in a mille project it will cause a lot of problems in a mille project because buff is a very genetically complex color with lots of genes, including some that repress black pigments.. causing mottles without or poor amount of black bars.

Your New Hampshire comment seems to confirm this as they are supposed to be solid colored except for black tail.. and lighter than RIR, even the 'poorly red' hatchery RIR.

German line seem to even more clear bodied- their hackles saddles and wings usually are so clear of any black, Probably extra useful for the goal of mottles without the black. Hmm.

 

[alohachickens]

I've been reading a little bit on mille pattern. So far as I understand it... the lack of the black bar is due to genes that repress the black pigments. I suspected it but someone brought up the fact if you use buffs in a mille project it will cause a lot of problems in a mille project because buff is a very genetically complex color with lots of genes, including some that repress black pigments.. causing mottles without or poor amount of black bars.

Your New Hampshire comment seems to confirm this as they are supposed to be solid colored except for black tail.. and lighter than RIR, even the 'poorly red' hatchery RIR.

German line seem to even more clear bodied- their hackles saddles and wings usually are so clear of any black, Probably extra useful for the goal of mottles without the black. Hmm.

I can confirm that using solid Buff birds *did not work* well at all.

I can't tell you why. Just my experiences. The first "infusion" was Buff Orpinton crosses, a couple big hens that were bred to my foundation Aloha rooster. That was very early on, probably 2010. The chicks that were brown and white or red and white, were fine. Nice and spotted after the second generation! However, the "Buff" chicks - did not spot up. I'd get hatches that consisted of brown and white spotted, red and white spotted, and solid buff chicks. The solid buffs might show a few small spots, but they would not get the big, bold, striking color of say, Mille D'Uccles.

Okay, I thought, well that's not a pure Buff Orpington so let's try this again, right? So back around 2012, I special ordered a few Buff Rock, which are like Barred Rocks but they are colored like Buff Orps. The advantage is these guys were HUGE and they also had the yellow legs. Once again, I bred spotted to solid Buff, then back-crossed to Spotted, and I got either Spotty red/browns, or solid Buffs. The best I ever got was a couple hens with a trace of spotting. But what I reallly, really really really wanted, is boldly spotted Buff and White mottled, like what is seen on this NN Aloha.

This had me MYSTIFIED because I really wanted some Buff and White spotty chicks! Chicks just like I finally have now, on the this buff and white Naked Neck hen.

The key, it turns out, was swapping out the solid Buff (the chickens with buff on the tail and neck) and using Buff Columbian instead. It took me forever to locate and get Buff Sussex in hand. The Buff Columbian Turken was also used, she started this whole line. BUT - when I finally found them - SUCCESS!

The Buff Motteld NN hen is the THIRD one we have got colored like this. Bad news - I gave all three of mine colored like this away. Good news - they all went to friends so I can borrow them back. LOL! Deb in Tucson who owns this hen, is going to give me hatching eggs from her.

Anyway, point is - LOOK FOR BUFF COLUMBIAN NN HENS - and breed to (in order of best results) Aloha, really well spotted Speckled Sussex, or possibly Juibilee Orp or maybe Swedish Flower. That will get you this color.

I know because I also am getting the same great results with the Buff Sussex bloodline. This hen is 100% Sussex, no Aloha, no Swedish. Just Buff and Speckled crossed back on each other:


She is nice and big because she is basically a pure Sussex. Going to breed her to this rooster:


Rooster is a small Aloha with lots of white and yellow legs. Hoping she will add size!

So anyway, two unrelated breeds solid buff, (Orpington and Buff Rock) = no good spotting.

Two unrelated breeds buff columbian (Sussex and NN) = great spotting!

Buff Columbian wins!!!

 

[alohachickens]

Forgot to add - Buff Columbian is the buff with black tail and black neck feathers, so really look at all those Turken hatchery chicks, if you see any in a feed store try to pick out the Buff babies to see if they come out that color! Our local ones came from Privett Hatchery in NM.

 

[alohachickens]

I want some PIE!

I really would like some fertile eggs from him. Later though.


The other guy does look like he may have some mottling.

I think Pie may carry Mottling. Just hard to tell with the Barring.

 

[Kassaundra]

I think Pie may carry Mottling. Just hard to tell with the Barring.

His great gma was Thing One or Two, both had mottled houdan for one parent (not sure if it was father or mother) anyway, they did not show anything, they were solid black, so I know there is mottling POSSIBILITY in his ancestry. I know he descends from one of the Things b/c of his split comb. There is also lots of barring in my current flock b/c of a bottle necking of genetics a couple of years ago due to catastrophic loss of most of my flock. Either way something genetically is "screwing" w/ his barred patterning, which in my opinion can only be good, lol. Mottling would be a cool and welcome patterning that I would encourage genetically, I know for sure one hen is definitely mottled and am sure I have other "carriers" in the flock. But my main goal is size and good dark fm skin color. Kev pointed out that bichen enhances my ability to get good fm skin color. And Draye mentioned (or maybe Kev) birchen and mottling don't play well together so I may be tilting at the wind.

 

[Kev]

I can confirm that using solid Buff birds *did not work* well at all.

Anyway, point is - LOOK FOR BUFF COLUMBIAN NN HENS - and breed to (in order of best results) Aloha, really well spotted Speckled Sussex, or possibly Juibilee Orp or maybe Swedish Flower. That will get you this color.

Yeah I remember what you said buff orps but did not realize you tried with buff rocks too- too bad as they can be very nice production quality birds!

It would be so nice to see how a solid buff with mottle would look...

If I'm understanding from the talks on mille(problem of getting good milles in cochins) correctly, using buff columbians with clear necks- no black on neck, back or wings are much more likely to give you mottles without the black bars. If that is true, could be useful information for someone who wants to breed mottles without the black and also to our own understanding why some have black and some don't.

 

[Kev]

His great gma was Thing One or Two, both had mottled houdan for one parent (not sure if it was father or mother) anyway, they did not show anything, they were solid black, so I know there is mottling POSSIBILITY in his ancestry. I know he descends from one of the Things b/c of his split comb. There is also lots of barring in my current flock b/c of a bottle necking of genetics a couple of years ago due to catastrophic loss of most of my flock. Either way something genetically is "screwing" w/ his barred patterning, which in my opinion can only be good, lol. Mottling would be a cool and welcome patterning that I would encourage genetically, I know for sure one hen is definitely mottled and am sure I have other "carriers" in the flock. But my main goal is size and good dark fm skin color. Kev pointed out that bichen enhances my ability to get good fm skin color. And Draye mentioned (or maybe Kev) birchen and mottling don't play well together so I may be tilting at the wind.

I think he is mottled from his his "pied" look as a juvenile.. however now he is mostly typical for a mottle+ barred(single barred it looks like?). Mottle is known to 'mess with' barring and make them much lighter than regular barred. It actually can be used to create autosexing by making the roosters pure for mottle and barring- they will be nearly white with black speckles. Hens having more black but still very 'mottly'... an autosexing line called Fiftyfive Flowery was created using this combination.

 

[alohachickens]

Early on in the program, a friend crossed some Alohas and Barred stuff, and we got a chick back. She looked fabulous as a baby and we thought maybe Barred Mottled would be really cool, but as she got older, the Mottling got really hard to see against the barring. So it wasn't "ugly" it was just that the mottling was pretty much "hidden" by the barring. The white tail feathers and wing feathers, in particular, make me suspect that he has Mottling.

OK, so one thing I'm still trying to figure out is the Mottling and the sex linked aspect of that. I've heard that if you have barred hens and a solid rooster, you can sex link the chicks sometimes? On this guy, if he was bred to - let's say solid black Turken hens to keep it simple - how many of his chicks would be Barred? Just forget the Mottling thing for a moment, I'm curious about the Barred aspect and how pervasive that would be.

One downside of working so extensively with one color (Mottling) is I've neglected my understanding of many other pattern genes! I literally know basically nothing about a lot of the pattern genes, like pencilling and lacing.