Too much protein

[Germaine_11.20]

I change the feed on a daily basis. I have mine in containers and first I give them what I think they need, then some scratch for fun. So one day I may give them flock raiser, then the next 16% and then another day gamebird or some cat food mixed in.

Mine are all healthy and nicely feathered. I don't worry about proportions, I just scoop and feed and they don't waste it because they are hungry. When it is gone I let them out to free range for the day.
Then before bed I give them somemore depending on how cold and how hungry they act. I also take a look at their crops. If they are stuffed--they go right to bed with no extra food. I like them hungry so no waste.

On really cold nights I reverse it and give them just a little in the morning, free range and stuff them before bed.

 

[AHappychick]

Quote:
cats gain a lot of their weight from dry cat food whick is mostly carbs, just like with people too many carbs puts on more weight. The higher protein that they are getting in the summer is why they loose a little weight. Just keep dry available and they will be fine.

 

[AHappychick]

I have been woindering this myself too. I have been using starter feed now with a higher protein mixed with oyster shell for my adults because the layer has 16% and I dont think it is enough. I am also giving meal worms and ground cooked meat at times. Is there a point wher I should be careful as to how many meal worms and meat they eat? I found they all are doing much better on the higher protein and the eggs are darker too!

 

[Wifezilla]

cats gain a lot of their weight from dry cat food whick is mostly carbs, just like with people too many carbs puts on more weight.

If your cats will only eat kibble (my 20 year old cat is like that) there are some good brands of low carb/high protein cat food. Innova EVO, Core Wellness, Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Taste of the Wild, Before Grains (BG), etc... My cats love Taste of the Wild. So do my ducks...and the quail....​

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Old thread, but an interesting topic for me as I've been reading about poultry nutrition and am trying to find out if any definitive research has been done to determine the safe upper limit for protein content of poultry feeds. Most nutritional recommendations are based on minimum requirements for economic reasons, I presume.

I just found this quote:
"Another misconception is that the protein level of breeder diets and handfeeding formulas is harmful to kidneys. In research studies in poultry, turkeys had to be fed diets with 40% protein to produce gout (one clinical sign of kidney disease) and they gradually recovered when put back on a diet with 20% protein (the amount of protein usually seen in breeder diets and handfeeding formulas). Chickens had to be fed diets with 70% protein to produce gout. No toxicity studies have yet been published in psittacines; however, Tom Roudybush will be participating in a study at UC Davis in which cockatiels will be fed diets with varying amounts of protein for 1 year. Evidence of kidney disease will be monitored using blood samples and the birds' kidneys will be examined microscopically at the end of the study to search for evidence of kidney damage.

"Studies at UC Davis conducted by Tom Roudybush demonstrated that 20% protein was required for growth in cockatiels. In that experiment, one group was fed 35% protein with no resulting kidney damage. It seems contrary to any logic or common sense to believe that the protein level required for growth would prove to be toxic.

"All information available for all species of animals, including man, studied so far suggest that there is a wide margin of safety for dietary protein in animals with normal kidney function. The fear over protein probably arises from the fact that a poorly functional kidney cannot process the nitrogenous waste from protein like a normal, healthy kidney can. People hear that too much protein causes gout. Well, it does, in a bird with a damaged kidney. Protein does not cause kidney disease at commonly fed levels, even up to 35% protein in normal cockatiels as demonstrated in Mr. Roudybush's research."

I found it at this link: http://home1.gte.net/impekabl/kid.htm

That link refers to another website: http://home1.gte.net/impekabl/impekabl.htm

I found no citation for what "research studies" discovered that "Chickens had to be fed diets with 70% protein to produce gout."

I know when I spoke to a poultry specialist at a custom feed mill about picking a protein percentage for an all-purpose flock food and expressed a concern about "too much protein," she indicated there was no real worry about hurting the birds with excessive protein as they just excrete it ...

 

[TracyLovesDucks]

"Beneficial nutrients, such as protein, can reach toxic levels and cause animals to stop grazing before full. This has been seen in grazing dairy herds where protein was overfed in the barn. The cows would only graze a short time, and when protein levels from high quality pasture reached toxic levels, pasture DMI would drop off. This has caused losses in milk production, leading to a cycle of feeding more stored forage in the barn. This only further restricts DMI from pasture, and eventually all the benefits of pasturing are lost."
http://www.extension.org/article/19660
I disagree with the "toxic protein" comment. It isn't the protein itself that is toxic, but the lack of other macronutrients that is a problem (see rabbit starvation in humans).

The same thing happens with humans... higher protein levels means less overall food consumption.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-384411.html
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/1
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/23/5/373

Same thing happens with cats and dogs.

Again, I feed a 22% protein feed. Have done so for years with many breeds including Large Fowl Modern & Old English Games as well as Malays. I have never experienced any fertility problems.​

Hi Wifezilla, glad I found this information of yours. I feed my runner ducks (smaller breed) 20% chick grower... they are 8 months old. I do get a weird look at the feed store, like "what's this girl doing still buying grower?" and every once in a while they will give me a schpeal about how they have a good layer feed that I should switch to. I always say, "nah, I have drakes, too."

Eventhough it's intended for chicks, I still use the grower because the nutritional breakdown is comparable to Flockraiser and Mazuri Waterfowl... but it's local and affordable. (You can see my little analysis here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/940135/mazuri-waterfowl-maintenance-feed).

Anyways, I occassionally worry that I'm feeding too much protein, not enough fat, etc. In total, my 8 ducks eat between 8 and 12 cups per day depending on the weather. Your posts here give me much more confidence, but I was wondering if you could tell me if you see any red flags? Thank you!

 

[Wifezilla]

It was years since I wrote that old post. Not only have I not had problems with my ducks, the chickens I just got last year are doing great too. I do give them kitchen scraps, pumpkins and other vegetables on occasion and give them time to run loose in the back yard though.

The only problem I noticed is when the local feed store was out of the high protein feed and I bought a bag of flock raiser. Within a week, my drake was having leg problems. He had been attacked by a skunk years earlier and, even though he recovered, he has vulnerabilities. Low protein food has him limping in no time.

 

[TracyLovesDucks]

Awesome, thanks for the update!

 

[mamaof2wi]

So glad I tripped upon this post. I have been feeding my a game bird feed that is a 24% from 1 week to now 6 weeks old. I have a bag of 19% game bird feed waiting to be opened once I am done with the bag of 24%. Then I was told it was way to high of protein and will give the angle wings/bad legs. So I started mixing the feeds and was going to go down in protein. But not after I read this I will just stick with the 19%. They are looking great and they color is amazing.

 

[hooktontravel]

this is so helpful! I was looking for something in organics that is pelleted, because the crumbles of grower are so much dust the birds dump a lot of it unless I soak it. The only thing I found that's akin to an 'all-flock' or grower in a pellet so far is a turkey grower. That's 21% protein. I have 7 month old chickens, 6 month old chicken & ducks, and one older hen. (total of 6 birds). I will try them on the turkey grower and continue the free-choice shell for calcium if they need it. the one 7 month hen has JUST started laying, and the old hen lays a fair bit as long as she doesn't get stressed out. but I haven't lighted them in the winter, except what they get from the streetlight. so i'm wanting them to grow slow, lay easy, and keep on being healthy as long as possible. Sounds like 21% protein should be no problem at all for them!

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences!