Tremovirus or other disease

[Mariakoltsa]

Ive posted about an issue with the same chicken in my previous post but new things have become clear since.
My 5 year old chicken has been losing weight and slowly moving less and less for months and months.. maybe around 6 months..and eating and drinking less until she stopped about two weeks ago. But noticed that she still attempts to eat and drink but just fails and gives up and tries again and again later but not being able to eat a single piece of food. She is still trying to clean her feathers and act normal and definitely wants to keep going…
Everything started from weird head twitches especially when she was trying to focus on having food or water. And looked as if had involuntary neck n head twitches every time she attempted to eat or drink. And they progressed to her looking as if she is stargazing but that is definitely not the case. I have treated her by syringe in high doses of B A E and etc etc vitamins together with crittacare formula. She is now only using her one eye and loses balance all the time. Sleeps a lot. One eye is facing upwards and the other one is almost always closed unless she fears danger or smething new. Head is tilted up and the closed eye is almost never visible due to her turning the other eye up and around to look, or has her head on her back or forward really low, almost on the ground, when resting. Also whole body vibrates sometimes for a whole and when picking her up and walking with her she has a fit and falls off on her back and twitches around for a bit. But has at least one fit like that a day just from a small startle or random things as well.
Unable to eat as she always misses the food and if she does catch it, it falls out of her beak and is unable to get it up any higher.
Ask any questions if i missed something but also… i want to know, if it is tremovirus caused, is there ever a chance she will recover enough to feed herself ? Or if its something else.. same question. Or has anyone successfully managed to re train a chicken to eat again if there is neurological issues like that ? Sounds unlikely and hard work but curious. Or is there any feeder systems that enable them to keep themselves alive ?
She is a VERY loved pet chicken.

 

[Perris]

I believe one of my roos has had this. See e.g. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-26968764
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27013960
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27078516
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27253795
Search for 'Chirk' on that thread to get more posts about it if you want more.

To cut a long story short, he recovered enough to feed himself and walk and jump etc., but he didn't fully recover, and he now lives quietly with an elderly hen who's chosen to join him, in a pen where they're safe from disturbance by the rest of the flock (which includes his sons and grandsons and who all free range dawn till dusk). They live like a sort of old age couple in their own old age pensioner coop. He has no special needs except protection from the other roos now.

 

[Mariakoltsa]

T

I believe one of my roos has had this. See e.g. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-26968764
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27013960
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27078516
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27253795
Search for 'Chirk' on that thread to get more posts about it if you want more.

To cut a long story short, he recovered enough to feed himself and walk and jump etc., but he didn't fully recover, and he now lives quietly with an elderly hen who's chosen to join him, in a pen where they're safe from disturbance by the rest of the flock (which includes his sons and grandsons and who all free range dawn till dusk). They live like a sort of old age couple in their own old age pensioner coop. He has no special needs except protection from the other roos now.

That’s GREAT NEWS for me. To quickly ask, what was he like and how long did this progress and what were the worst symptoms. And how long did the recovery take? Its okay if you have no time to anwser this i can ready what you posted but im syringe feeding atm.
Im very glad you anwsered this post. Give me some hope at least

 

[Perris]

I don't know how long he'd been going down with it - noticed him stumble a few times but didn't make anything of it - before he was deposed as dominant roo on 5th June this year. First seen having a convulsion on the 18th June, and he was falling head over heels from that date. Found on his side on the floor of the coop on the 22nd, and he was then brought into the house. My notes from that day read
kicks and tries to stand (but can’t). Now laying quietly on towel on floor, trembling. Comb and wattles red, eyes bright. Refusing water, still after noon. Some very dry feces cut off from his vent area and rinsed with plain water – skin then turned quite red in direct response to water, and it seemed to be hurting him, so I stopped. He ate some mealworms later, and drank a little, but comb darkening, and by 8.30pm he was panting. I think the end is near.

23/6 C still with us this morning, comb red, some urates produced overnight so kidneys fine, but still off his legs and not interested in water. Lying on side, legs strong to kick if picked up, but completely unable to stand (falls onto butt or to side) or turn over. Checked on him at 7.30, he had moved across the floor after producing some more urates. Refused water. But ate mealworms, ½ sardine, ½ banana, and some milk-soaked bread all from laying position @8.30am, so he’s not given up the struggle to survive.

24/6 Chirk still fighting to survive; bright eyes, red comb and wattles, good appetite for sardines and mealworms. Pooing urates, sometimes very smelly. Leg tremors, but strong kick when moved (I turn him over several times a day to prevent pressure sores). Has he got avian encephalomyelitis?

On 1st July I noted: Chirk improving; fewer tremors, calls when needs something (e.g. to poo!), great appetite, drinks from water bowl (haven’t used syringe for days).

He stood again for the first time on 5th July, and tried to eat from standing position from the next day but fell head over heels. By the 8th July, so long as we got his feet in the right position first, he could eat standing up. And since then he steadily regained a lot of his strength and most of his balance, and has been living outside again since 16th August.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27017210

It was quite heavy going. I'm retired so could do it, but it would have been too much when I was working and there were children about. Eating was slow, but we got there, and I learned something
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/shadrachs-stories.1263724/post-27023809

 

[Mariakoltsa]

I don't know how long he'd been going down with it - noticed him stumble a few times but didn't make anything of it - before he was deposed as dominant roo on 5th June this year. First seen having a convulsion on the 18th June, and he was falling head over heels from that date. Found on his side on the floor of the coop on the 22nd, and he was then brought into the house. My notes from that day read
kicks and tries to stand (but can’t). Now laying quietly on towel on floor, trembling. Comb and wattles red, eyes bright. Refusing water, still after noon. Some very dry feces cut off from his vent area and rinsed with plain water – skin then turned quite red in direct response to water, and it seemed to be hurting him, so I stopped. He ate some mealworms later, and drank a little, but comb darkening, and by 8.30pm he was panting. I think the end is near.

23/6 C still with us this morning, comb red, some urates produced overnight so kidneys fine, but still off his legs and not interested in water. Lying on side, legs strong to kick if picked up, but completely unable to stand (falls onto butt or to side) or turn over. Checked on him at 7.30, he had moved across the floor after producing some more urates. Refused water. But ate mealworms, ½ sardine, ½ banana, and some milk-soaked bread all from laying position @8.30am, so he’s not given up the struggle to survive.

24/6 Chirk still fighting to survive; bright eyes, red comb and wattles, good appetite for sardines and mealworms. Pooing urates, sometimes very smelly. Leg tremors, but strong kick when moved (I turn him over several times a day to prevent pressure sores). Has he got avian encephalomyelitis?

On 1st July I noted: Chirk improving; fewer tremors, calls when needs something (e.g. to poo!), great appetite, drinks from water bowl (haven’t used syringe for days).

He stood again for the first time on 5th July, and tried to eat from standing position from the next day but fell head over heels. By the 8th July, so long as we got his feet in the right position first, he could eat standing up. And since then he steadily regained a lot of his strength and most of his balance, and has been living outside again since 16th August.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-27017210

It was quite heavy going. I'm retired so could do it, but it would have been too much when I was working and there were children about. Eating was slow, but we got there, and I learned something
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/shadrachs-stories.1263724/post-27023809

Oh sounds horrible…
But sadly seems like a different thing.. UNLESS… the same disease can present differently. But my chicken seemed to be very bad for a very long time but never leg issues like can’t stand or things like that. More like rather weak and sleeps a lot but definitely not eating and no sign of recovery at all.. with my chicken seems completely like a brain thing.. nothing else at all.. anything with legs seems purely just from the fact that she gets dizzy or disorientated and no balance..
ive been nursing her for two weeks and no improvement so far…. But for the past week she hast gotten any worse either… which worse is probably death as she cant eat herself. but still walks around. Manages to walk around a few hours a day trying to peck at grass when i let her out by herself but fails as usual and then just keepsTrying to peck and walks around, and then tries to preen and stuff but then rest of the 20 hours just sleeps with her head in all sorts of weird angles- preferably on our laps.
By the way… when on our lap then she completely drops her head and falls asleep like a wet sock. We can pick her side tilted head up off our laps and just hold it and she loves it and doesn’t even move. We can literally lift it like a sock…. And she won’t move. But when i put her down to sleep somewhere then she stands on hocks and puts her head on her back.
I really appreciate You taking your time to anwser me here and try to help me.

 

[Perris]

anything with legs seems purely just from the fact that she gets dizzy or disorientated and no balance..

That does sound a bit different, but I'm sure this was the case for Chirk too; his legs have always been strong, he just couldn't balance on them. His head has just hung down limp too at the worst times, but then the loss of balance would cause him to keel over.

Your hen sounds very weak indeed. How much weight has she lost? Can you feel any muscle on the keel? Can you get some high protein food in her, offering it right to the beak?

 

[Mariakoltsa]

That does sound a bit different, but I'm sure this was the case for Chirk too; his legs have always been strong, he just couldn't balance on them. His head has just hung down limp too at the worst times, but then the loss of balance would cause him to keel over.

Your hen sounds very weak indeed. How much weight has she lost? Can you feel any muscle on the keel? Can you get some high protein food in her, offering it right to the beak?

She is a bantam and she never weighed more than 700g but now she is maybe 300g. Theres no muscle at all.. but i camt give her anything that’s not syringe fed formula. She just can’t get the food past the tip of her beak. But i still offer she peck and pecks every day and gives up again. Vetafarm crittacare but only 25 ml a day all up mixed with vitamins and water because it seems so exhausting to her she just drops her head and i can’t keep doing it. But the next morning she has more life in her thanks to that.
I know i should give more but its VERY hard. And i have no access to any tubing where i live i need to order it.

 

[Perris]

I don't tube feed. Live mealworms, held for Chirk next to his beak until he did get hold of it, were what sustained him at his lowest. Fish and reptile shops often stock them.
Sometimes it is kinder to let them go. I don't force a bird to eat, I just support one that wants to live to the best of my ability. We cannot save them all, and sometimes I think we do more harm than good by intervening too aggressively.

 

[Mariakoltsa]

I don't tube feed. Live mealworms, held for Chirk next to his beak until he did get hold of it, were what sustained him at his lowest. Fish and reptile shops often stock them.
Sometimes it is kinder to let them go. I don't force a bird to eat, I just support one that wants to live to the best of my ability. We cannot save them all, and sometimes I think we do more harm than good by intervening too aggressively.

Exactly. Support the one that wants to live..