Turkeys For 2013

[kuntrygirl]

What are you planning for next year's group of turkeys? What breed are you wanting this year? Are you getting any new breeds? Are your girls laying now? Are your girls setting on eggs now? Who will have the first hatch for 2013? Any bets for the New Year Babies (Poults)

Let's have a discussion on what everyone is hoping for the New Year (2013).

My girls are laying eggs and I have people contacting me for orders for eggs AND poults. Some are wanting hens, others are wanting Toms and many want a pair to start with. I'm not sure I will be able to fill all of the orders. EVERYONE wants turkeys! I think many people are seeing how marvelous these birds are (any and all turkeys breeds) and want to cash in and have what we turkey owners already have. Gotta love it!

 

[Celie]

Not to change the subject, but we are often asked, how to tell the sex of turkey poults and young adults. These are the facts I believe to be true and if anyone would care to contribute to the list, please do. If I have something wrong, please correct me, since I do not want to spread incorrect information. This seams to be the number one question asked on the turkey threads !

1. All colored feathered turkey hens will have lighter edging on the breast features and toms will have darker edging.
2. Males will weigh more than females hatched at the same time and this will become more apparent as they grow older.
3. Toms will have thicker legs than hens.
4. Both can have beards, but toms will grow longer.
5. Toms have longer thicker snoods as they reach maturity.
6. Toms Chronicles will be bigger than hens and the heads and necks will be a darker red.
7. Toms will be bald, while hens will develop a thin line of feathers up the back of their heads.
8. If you can hold the bird on your lap, laying on it's back, at any age, if it holds it's feet up close to it's back, it is probably a hen, because it is a defensive position for a tom or a rooster, too,(for that , matter) to extend one or both legs. This, I find works from day old chicks or poults, with 94 degree accuracy.
9. Both will display when young, but by the age of sexual maturity, only toms gobble.

This year I have done my own research on how to tell the sex of very young poults and chicks before they are old enough for the above! I have used a couple hundred poults to test as I hatched out Holland White, Midget White and A few Bourbon Red Poults this year, with 94% accuracy!
10. If you can hold the bird on your lap, laying on it's back, at any age, if it holds it's feet up close to it's back, it is probably a hen. If it extends it's legs or even just one leg, you probably have a tom. This, I find works with day old chicks and poults and seams to be based of their natural defensive posture of male vs female responses in these birds. I thought someone else might benefit from my findings, too, so I thought I would share.


Arielle, this is the experiment I spoke to you about last winter, before I had enough research done to support my suspicions. Hope it helps!

 

[kuntrygirl]

For all of you new poult/turkey owners, BYC is a great place to learn about raising poults and turkeys. Learn as much as you can and ask as many questions as you can. There is no such thing as a dumb question. What you may think is a dumb question is not dumb and you can bet that there are others who want to ask the same question but afraid to. No one here on this thread will laugh at you or ridicule you for wanting to learn all that you can.

The reason that I am saying this is because I am getting an increasing amount of emails and calls from people in my area who want to buy eggs, poults and turkeys and have no idea what they are doing and have never raised them before. Their poults and turkeys are dying and they are wanting to re-place the dead ones with more. Well, you can keep replacing dead poults or adults but until you find out why they are all dying, you will never solve your problem.

The basic things that I try to tell these people when they call me is...
1. Make sure your poults are ALWAYS warm. Your poults will tell you if they are too hot or too cold. Watch their behaviors.
2. A wet poult is a dead poult, so make sure they don't get wet and freeze to death.
3. Always make sure that you SEE your poults eating and drinking. Don't assume that your new babies are eating and drinking because they WILL die within a few days.
4. If you just have to, you can put a few baby chicks with your poults so that the chicks can teach the poults how to eat.
5. Make sure your hens are safe and secure from any predator when setting on her nest of eggs. All we can do is try our best to have them in a protected area.
6. Make sure that your hen has access to food and water and these things are at a very close distance to where she is. Make sure that she KNOWS where this food and water is. Do not make your hen have to walk a far distance for her food and water if you can help it. I know that we all have those sneaky hens that will wander off and lay a clutch of eggs in the next city and will only come out to eat and drink. Well, we can't control that but if we know that we have a setting hen, make her as comfortable as possible. Make it an easy 28 days for her if possible. (I know someone who had a hen who died while setting on her nest of eggs. I suspect she starved because her feed was so far away from where her nest was. She never got up to eat. Poor hen.)
7. If your hen is in an unsafe environment when the poults are hatched, you may want to take the poults from her and try to raise them yourself because if not, a predator may get them AND your hen. So, in the end you will not have poults or a mama but if you try to raise them yourself, you will have a better chance of saving the babies and the mom will be safe as well, if she is away from that unsafe environment.
8. DO NOT keep the tom and the poults together. The tom may try to kill the poults. Keep them separated.
9. Proper nutrition is important for a poult and turkey. Free ranging, bugs, fruits, veggies and good feed is a great diet for a turkey.
10. Check out your birds routinely and look for any signs of unusual behavior, symptoms, illnesses, etc. Again, your birds will tell you when they are sick.
11. If you can, pick up your birds from time to time and do a feel check. Check for sounds of congested breathing, check for foul odor in the mouth, check for weight loss, protruding breast bones. And of course, check their feet.
12. Try to have on had a few meds in the event your birds get sick. Common disease in turkeys are sinus problems, respiratory problems and black head. Be proactive and have these meds on hand so that you can treat your turkey if your turkey gets sick. You don't want to be caught on the weekend and no feed stores are open. Keep printed out information on these illnesses and keep on hand, so that you can treat your birds. Have proper supplies on hand (needles, etc.)
13. De-worm your turkeys routinely
14. DO NOT bring home any sick birds.
15. If you do buy birds from other people, please quarantine them for at least 30 days. DO NOT put new birds with your healthy birds.
16. DO NOT believe someone that you don't know when they tell you that there birds are healthy.
17. DO NOT let other people who have birds walk about your chicken yard. They may bring in contaminated or infected poop and drop in your chicken yard and if your birds eat and ingest the infected poop, your birds could become sick and die.

These are just a few things to keep in mind for all of the new owners and some of use old tymers as well. We never know everything about our birds. Every day is a learning experience and this is why we come to BYC and this thread, so that we can learn from others and from other's mistakes and experiences.

If I have missed any tips that others would like to add, please do so.

I just felt the need to talk about this because of all of the calls that I am getting about people losing their turkeys. Our animals should not have to suffer because we as owners "don't know" how to care for them. Knowledge is Power.

 

[chicken pickin]

Thanks Chicken what amounts of juice, salt and what spices did you use?

I don't remember the exact amounts. I want to say in a huge pan filled it 2/3 water 1/3 juice roughly 1cup of salt leaving enough room to submerge the turkey of course.

Then before cooking I quartered up 5 apples and tossed them with a few hunks of butter and sprinkled with spices, I don't remember what I used most likely it was Rosemary its my fav spice. The apple mixture was then stuffed in the turkey.

 

[uphilljill]

Pot Pie, yum! Whenever I make turkey stock, I usually reserve a bit for pot pie.

Recipe (also good for chicken pot pie):

6 tablespoons butter
1 cup chopped onions
1/2 cup chopped celery
6 tablespoons flour
2 1/2 cups turkey broth
1 cup half and half
2 cups diced potatoes, blanched
1 cup frozen carrots
1 cup sweet peas
2 cups cooked turkey
2 frozen pie crusts (roll out to fit baking dish)
Salt and pepper

Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Grease a deep round baking dish.

In a large saute pan, melt the butter. Add the onions and celery and saute for 2 minutes. Season with salt and pepper. Stir in the flour and cook for about 3 to 4 minutes for a blond roux. Stir in the stock and bring the liquid up to a boil. Reduce to a simmer and continue to cook for 4 to 6 minutes, or until the sauce starts to thicken. Stir in the half and half and continue to cook for 4 minutes. Season with salt and pepper. Stir in the potatoes, carrots, peas and turkey. Mix the filling thoroughly.

Line the baking pan with one of the crusts. Pour the filling into the prepared pan. (I sometimes make the filling a day ahead of time and use at room temp.) Place the top crust on top of the filling. Carefully tuck the overlapping crust into the pan, forming a thick edge. Crimp the edges of the pan and place on a baking sheet. Cut a few vents in the top of the crust for steam to escape. Place the sheet in the oven and bake for about 25 to 30 minutes or until the crust is golden brown and crispy. (You can cover the edges of the crust with foil if they look like they're starting to burn.)

Remove from the oven and cool for 10 minutes before serving.

This make a lot of pot pie filling. Almost 2 pies worth depending on how deep your pie dishes are. Good to freeze for later pies. And you can substitute/add just about any veggies you like. You can also skip pie crust and mix in cooked (al dente) egg noodles instead and bake for a casserole.

 

[kuntrygirl]

GRAPHIC PICS...........DO NOT LOOK AT IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH !!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, here goes...............

Well this weekend, I noticed that my older Tom, who is no longer in the breeding pack, was not himself. I have about 300 animals but I look at all of them every day and I look for unusual behaviors, signs, symptoms, injuries, etc. Well my Tom was in one spot of the chicken yard for an unusual long amount of time and the other turkeys were unusually close to him. He is my Old Tymer and he keeps to himself and doesn't bother anyone. So, when I saw this I went out to the chicken yard to see what was going on. I picked him up and immediately noticed that he had lost some weight. So, I brought him inside and checked him out . I always check his feet first because he has a history of bumble foot. Well, lo and behold, the bumble foot was back. He get bumble foot 1- 2 times a year and I have to do minor surgery. I think that the reason it keeps re-appearing is because I am not digging out the "plug" that's in there and so then it continues to grow. Well, this time, I think I got the entire plug out.

Well, this is what I did.

I went to the bathroom and filled his foot spa tub up with warm water and Epsom salt. He has his own foot spa tub. I picked him and put him in his tub. Here is a pic of what he looks like in his foot tub. This is a pic from last year, so you can see how I have him set up. I let his feet soak for about 30 minutes. I check on him every 5 minutes to make sure that he is ok. I usually close the door and turn the light out but I have a night light in there so there is at least some light. This allows him peace and tranquility. (well, it does that for me.)

I have my surgery items on hand before I begin. My list includes:
1. Gloves
2. Razor Blades
3. Gauze
4. Neosporin
5. Tweezers
6. Paper Towels
7. Blue Kote
8. Special spray from my vet for cuts and injuries
9. Pan of fresh warm water
10. Spray bottle of warm water with Epsom salt.

After 30 minutes, I took him out and placed him on a flat surface. This time I placed him on a chair because I needed to get a good position to begin my work and I couldn't do that on a table top this time. I placed a towel on the chair and on the floor below me. I covered his face with a towel. During this time, he is not fighting or moving . By now, he knows the procedure. He usually takes a nap when I start surgery and I wake him up when I'm done.

So, I got the foot that has bumble foot. This is what it looked like before I began.

I took a razor blade and I cut around the dark scab/plug. There was a little blood but not much. I took the tweezers and pulled the black scab off. A good pull would pull out the entire plug but I didn't get that on the first plug, so I had to dig and dig and dig all of the crap out of there.

After trying to clean all of the crap out, this is what the bottom of the foot looked like. Unfortunately, I could tell that there was still crap in there but I could not get to it. So, I turned his foot over and I found yet another bumble foot ON TOP of his foot, so I had to work on that area as well.

Bumble foot on TOP of this foot.

So, now I had to work on getting more crap out. So, this time, I played with the scab to see how easy it would be for me to get that plug. Well, I was able to pluck that plug out and I was sooooooooooooooooooo relieved. This is what the plug looks like. It is VERY important to make sure you get the plug out. If not, the bird will continue to have bumble foot as my Tom has. The plug that I pulled out is shaped just like a ear plug but kinda looks like a kernel of corn.

Pic of Plug from Bumble foot

After pulling out the plug, there was really no more crap in there. I made sure that all of the crap was out of there and cleaned him up really good with the items on the list. I used the spray bottle of Epsom salt and water and cleaned up the area.

The hole where the plug was pulled from was deep. It's length was from the top to the bottom of his foot. Bumble foot had spread straight through his foot pad. Here are the pics so that you can see what I mean. This was the worst that I have ever seen it. But that's my fault because I never got it completely out and this is what happened because of my mistake. I was always afraid to go too deep thinking that I would hurt my turkey but you have to get all of it out. If not, this is what you will have to deal with.

So, for now, my tom is inside in the wash room recovering. I have been hand feeding him because he has lost weight. Something that I noticed as to why he lost weight was because he was not able to stand in front of the feeder to eat. So, it looks like he chose to not eat in the chicken yard. He would have starved to death if I would not have noticed something was wrong with him. I noticed that he was not able to eat when I watched him in the laundry room without him knowing that I was watching him. I had his water and feed in with him and he was able to stand up to drink but for some reason, when it came time for him to eat, he was not able to. He had to sit down on his comforter to eat and he was having a hard time doing that. I guess after using all of his strength to drink, he couldn't stand any longer to eat.

Although he is not able to stand on the foot that I did surgery on for a long period of time, he is recovering fine. I am hand feeding him 3 times a day and giving him vitamins. I am trying not to fatten him up too much because I don't want to him to put on too much weight with that foot being injured. He is getting grits and eggs for breakfast and for lunch he is getting game bird crumble mash. I will probably get out the blender and juicer and blend him up some Mean Grean healthy smoothies with lots of veggies and feed him.

So, there you go. This is what I was dealing with this weekend.

Everyone, please check our turkeys and all of your other birds for bumble foot. Bumble foot can be on the top of the foot as well as the bottom.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

ETA: Wanted to explain Bumble foot for those that do not know.

Explanation from Wikipedia

Bumblefoot in poultry and waterfowl

Bumblefoot is a common infection for domesticated poultry and waterfowl such as chickens and ducks. Due to constant walking on hard, rough, or sharp surfaces, birds can develop small wounds on the bottom of their feet. These wounds are very susceptible to infection by Staphylococcus aureus, bacteria which can cause bumblefoot in poultry and waterfowl. Treatment often requires opening the wound to drain the pus and antibiotic treatment and local application of pyodine as local dressing.

Other Links

http://poultry.allotment.org.uk/advice/chicken-health/bumblefoot

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-treat-chicken-foot-sores.html

 

[kuntrygirl]

Speaking of the care sheet, someone posted something about caring for poults and I put this together as far as what I do. Everyone will care for their poults differently but I find that this works PERFECT for me. Please feel free to copy and paste and make this into your own care sheet. If anyone wants to add anything that I have forgot, please post so that I can add to my care sheet that I will give out.

I didn't address the incubator but I think I will. I know everyone has different ways (humidity) to incubate turkey eggs, so again, we all will do that differently. If I do supply an incubating turkey egg sheet, it will be based on my 40 humidity. Others may be higher than mine.



Here is what I do that I feel that keeps all of my poults alive.

1. After hatching in incubator, leave the poults in the incubator for 2 days so that they can fully dry off. Transfer to brooder after 2 days.

2. Have brooder ready to include making sure that the heat lamp has been plugged, turned on and the thermometer that you must have in the brooder is reading at least 99 degrees.

3. Have high protein feed ALREADY purchased and available. We all know that it takes 28 days for turkey eggs to hatch, so there should be no excuse as to why food has not been purchased in advance and waiting on the poults.

4. If you choose to raise poults and not allow the hen to raise them, you should be FULLY prepared and knowledgeable on how to teach the poults how to eat and drink.

5. I always have colorful marbles on hand to place in the shallow water dish so that they see the reflection in the water to prompt them to drink. I always place food on aluminum foil so that they peck on the foil to come up with food in their beaks. This will help them to eat. Do not have deep water dishes or else they may fall in and die. And DO NOT let your poult ever get wet. A wet poult is a DEAD poult.

6. Monitor the temps and their behavior. If they are huddled on top of each other, they are cold. You must increase the heat. Huddling will cause death because they are cold and they will suffocate and kill one another. If they are sleeping far away from the lamp, they are too hot and they can die as well. If they are under the lamp and spaced out, they are warm and happy.

7. DO NOT assume that your poults are eating. YOU MUST see them eating and drinking. Failure to see them eat and drink will cause assumptions and you will wonder why they are weak and moving slow. It is because they are starving and thirsty and they WILL DIE!

8. You can also place a couple of baby chicks in with your poults so that the chicks will teach them how to eat. Be careful when placing someone else's chicks with yours because their chicks may be sick which will cause your poults to get sick and die.

9. Keep your poults inside until it is warm enough to bring them outside. Being too excited to bring them out will KILL them because of the cool temps and harsh elements.

10. Keep your poults off of the ground for as long as you can, so their immune system and body can get strong enough to be able to handle what is in the ground and what is in their environment.

11. I like to place towels or sheets or old t-shirts on the floor of the brooder. I do this so they have a firm area to walk in with no slipping or sliding which can cause toe, foot and leg problems.

These tips are what I do. This works best for me and my poults. Everyone's situation will be different. I hope that this helps a little.
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
ETA MORE TIPS
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
wanted to add this to make sure that you have a few items on hand when your poults arrive or have hatched so you won't panic and won't have to run out in the event you have a little one that is "not quite themselves" and they need a little "pick me up" or if one of your poults falls sick, you will have a few things on hand.

1. Yogurt (make sure your expiration date is a ways away ).
2. Baby food (greens, carrots, etc.)
3. Apple Cider Vinegar with the mother in it.
4. Syringe with NO needle

For those of you that remember about a month ago when I found one of my poults with a curly fry twisted neck, well he was able to stay alive with these 3 food items. Because he COULD not eat or drink, I fed him TONS of baby food and a yogurt/ACV mixture and squirted this down his throat with a syringe. This is what kept him alive. I thought to post this when I scored a big bag full of baby food from Craigslist today. Someone was giving away 25 jars of baby food, 26 containers of pureed fruit, baby formula and baby oatmeal and I was all over that food for my Emergency Care Kit for my birds. It's always good to be prepared. Baby food is not expensive, so having at least a couple jars on hand would be a good start. You can always pick up more later but at least you would have that.

Syringe that I use.

Free Baby Food that I received.

 

[TexasLisa]

Lisa would you mind sharing your apple brine recipe? I would love to try it.

How can I say no to the avatar that makes me laugh every time I see it!!!

APPLE BRINE

2 qts. water
2 qts CHEAP apple juice
1 c table salt OR 1 1/2 c kosher salt
1/2 c brown sugar
10 whole cloves
1 T black peppercorns
zest of orange

In large pot combine salt, sugar, and 1 qt. water. Bring to light boil, stirring until salt and sugar are dissolved. Remove from heat, add cloves, peppercorn and zest. Allow to cool. Add remaining water and apple juice. Refrigerate until completely chilled.

Place poultry in container. Pour brine inside cavity first then on top. Cover completely. (If there isn't enough brine, add more apple juice) Brine 1 hour per pound in refrigerator. (This last time I doubled the recipe because of the size of the bird). While brining, swish the bird around in the brine.

Thoroughly rinse all brine off before cooking or it will be salty.

When baking, I add onion, apple, and garlic to the cavity.

 

[kuntrygirl]

I have 2 people that want to buy 2 adult hens from me but I really, really, really, really don't want to sell them but they are willing to pay the price, which is $75.00 per hen. I have 12 girls now but that will bring me down to only 10. I will be losing money if I sell them because I want to keep them for laying eggs and hatching poults.


Should I follow my first mind and not sell or go ahead and sell? How many hens do you all have for laying eggs and hatching?

If you keep the 2 hens, how much money will you make from the hens???  More than the $75?? 

Keep the breeding stock, and only sell the extras.

I posted this on another thread, so I will copy and paste this information about the price.

1 hen = 12 eggs layed each time (estimate - 2 times broody) = 24 eggs. If I chose to let the hen hatch the eggs or if I chose to hatch the eggs in the incubator and I have a 100% hatch rate (and I usually do), the 24 poults are sold @ $12.00 each. 24 poults x $12.00 brings in a profit of $288.00 if I sell the poults within a week . If I keep them any longer, the price increases every week by $1.00 (cost of feeding them). Comparing the amount that I could sell a hen for compared to selling 24 poults minus the amount of feed that 1 hen eats still puts me in the + (positive) because they don't eat that much feed.

If the hen only lays eggs and does not go broody for 3 months and lays (let's just say) 75 eggs and I sell all 75 eggs @ $3.00 each. That hen brings in a $225.00 profit.

This profit ($225.00 to $288.00) is the same that a buyer can make off of the hen that I sell him/her (if that's what they chose to do). Now if I sell 2 hens to this same person and Hen 1 hatches all eggs both times and Hen 2 only lays eggs (based on a 3 month period - my hens layed eggs for 10 month this year ($750.00 worth of eggs for 10 months of egg laying), my profit is $513.00 for 3 egg laying for 3 months).

In addition, my turkeys don't eat a lot. The turkeys like to fly over the fence and come into the human yard and the wooded area and eat grass and bugs.

So the $75.00 that I sell them for is nothing compared to what I can make.

I agree with keeping the breeding stock and selling the extras and the extras are always the males.

Thanks for the input.

 

[erinszoo]

I have a baker's scale for weighing flour and such. We put a small plastic bowl or one of those boxes that mushrooms come in on it and put the poult in it to weigh. It only weighs to 11 lbs though so ... hehehe ... we weighed our dressed turkey for thanksgiving on our Wii fit balance board. It has it's own profile now.