Update, Necropsy Results

[Wyorp Rock]

Hun, these guys/gals are our educators and very good at what they do. I just think out loud. LOL I would wonder about the food . Make sure it hasnt been wet or old or ???
I never used the fancy stuff but it looks fattening to me. Just as a precaution. I am sorry for your loss. And very thankful for our educators. Without them all my chickens would be dead .

Awww...Granny. You think out loud as often as you want! Feed is one of the most important things to look at, imho. You never know what (I) may have learned from you all this time too.
After looking at the feed http://www.newcountryorganics.com/s...eeds/layer-feed/layer-feed-50-pounds.html#abc
It does look like it could be fattening to me as well But I'm not a nutritionist. With that feed, there would be no need for scratch. Maybe this particular girl was partial to the corn and didn't eat the peas, oats and other things in it?

 

[Granny Hatchet]

Thank you Wyorp, I do feel like I shouldnt advise because I dont know enough and dont want to steer anyone wrong. I have seen that happen a lot . I have great respect for all the educators and just because I have a lot of post dont mean I know much and I want others to realize what a great job you guys do.

 

[Abriana]

So sorry for your loss

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Awww...Granny. You think out loud as often as you want! Feed is one of the most important things to look at, imho. You never know what (I) may have learned from you all this time too.
After looking at the feed http://www.newcountryorganics.com/s...eeds/layer-feed/layer-feed-50-pounds.html#abc
It does look like it could be fattening to me as well But I'm not a nutritionist. With that feed, there would be no need for scratch. Maybe this particular girl was partial to the corn and didn't eat the peas, oats and other things in it?

That feed doesn't look fattening to me. The issue I might identify is being able to pick out certain ingredients, thereby causing issues. I'm no nutritionist either, but spend TONS of time researching and reading labels. That analysis seem on par with other feeds. I have only heard of people loving the NCO, but personally can't afford it.

I have a couple different feeds. One says not less than 3.8% fat. And my Purina Flock Raiser with 20% protein says not less than 3.5% fat. Please note that if you don't pay attention to labels they can change formulas without you noticing. I used to not appreciate that Purina put DE in their feed and even didn't buy it for a while. Then it became the only acceptable formula carried by my LFS for my goals so I started buying again. Guess what, no more DE on the label. Which it is approved for use as an anti clumping agent in feeds at a rate of up to 2% in the US.

I definitely appreciate the learning here too. So many sharing their heart breaking challenges and their joy leaping successes. Both newbies and educators alike. We do all learn form each other, and I'm very thankful for the community effort and comradery that I see taking place often. It isn't all peaches and cream. We still contemplate the concerns and feel the pain even when it isn't us currently experiencing it.

 

[Michael Propst]

I also just lost a 9 month old Buff Orpington to the same issue in early December. Fatty liver that resulted in a rupture and death within minutes, I was fortunate to be out with them when it happened so I was able to spend the last final minutes with her. I to was blown away by how sudden this was and had a necropsy down which also confirmed the same findings as yours. I also agreed to have a histopathology done to rule out any other possible contributing factors. Here is a bit of the email I got from my vet on those results "I also wanted to let you know this histopathology report came back for Sadie, and there were no surprises. The liver lesions were consistent with fatty liver hemorrhagic syndrome. No indication of any infectious condition was seen." I feed high quality feed from Scratch and Peck. I actually reached out to them and they reviewed with me the diet I was feeding and since I have made some very big dietary changes. But the same as you I was not really feeding any high fat items in their diet and zero corn at the time, but ultimately I had been giving too many treats. I have been trying to do some research since. Not allot of information on if this could be breed or genetically related but have read several other instances involving Buff Orpingtons. Here are some of the resources I have found

• http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300985813503569
  
• http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poult...f-fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome-in-poultry
  
• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24091813

 

[bajabirdbrain]

I also just lost a 9 month old Buff Orpington to the same issue in early December. Fatty liver that resulted in a rupture and death within minutes, I was fortunate to be out with them when it happened so I was able to spend the last final minutes with her. I to was blown away by how sudden this was and had a necropsy down which also confirmed the same findings as yours. I also agreed to have a histopathology done to rule out any other possible contributing factors. Here is a bit of the email I got from my vet on those results "I also wanted to let you know this histopathology report came back for Sadie, and there were no surprises. The liver lesions were consistent with fatty liver hemorrhagic syndrome. No indication of any infectious condition was seen." I feed high quality feed from Scratch and Peck. I actually reached out to them and they reviewed with me the diet I was feeding and since I have made some very big dietary changes. But the same as you I was not really feeding any high fat items in their diet and zero corn at the time, but ultimately I had been giving too many treats. I have been trying to do some research since. Not allot of information on if this could be breed or genetically related but have read several other instances involving Buff Orpingtons. Here are some of the resources I have found

• http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300985813503569
  
• http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poult...f-fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome-in-poultry
  
• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24091813

Could you please tell us exactly what treats you were feeding them? We also use Scratch and Peck feed. We are very sorry for your loss. Our flock of 11 girls are also 9 months old and we love them like children.

 

[rebrascora]

That feed doesn't look fattening to me. The issue I might identify is being able to pick out certain ingredients, thereby causing issues. I'm no nutritionist either, but spend TONS of time researching and reading labels. That analysis seem on par with other feeds. I have only heard of people loving the NCO, but personally can't afford it.

This is exactly my thoughts. The Organic feed used by the OP and the "Scratch and Peck" feed used by @Michael Propst are both non micronized which means that they have quite large fragments of grains enabling a chicken to pick and choose between ingredients and meaning that if a particular chicken has a taste for one component of the feed, they will actively select them over others.
I think it is very relevant that both hens that were diagnosed with this fatal disorder were fed a course mix feed like this and sadly at great expense to their owners who thought they were giving them the best they could buy.

I posted on your other thread about my views on this necropsy result but assumed you were feeding scratch. I would encourage you to change to a micronized feed.... probably pelleted is best. Chickens can pick up tiny specks of things you can barely see, so it is not unreasonable that they will pick their favourite bits out of a feed where the particle size is this large...... in my opinion the feed is the problem, particularly if it is fed from a dispenser where they can clearly see all the particles or even scattered on the ground. I imagine there may be some considerable waste when feeding this product as there will be a strong temptation to all chickens to bill out and eat only their favourite bits.

 

[rebrascora]

I would be curious to know how many people that use these type of feeds have premature deaths, prolapses, poor laying, internal laying etc.
I would imagine that few have necropsies done.
The sad thing is in my opinion that these feeds are expensive and people feel like they are doing the very best for their chickens by buying them.

If people are not convinced by my reasoning I would urge you to test it by throwing a handful down on a paving slab and seeing which pieces get eaten first and what is the last to get eaten.

 

[Michael Propst]

Could you please tell us exactly what treats you were feeding them?

I am not going to go over my complete diet before and now but I can say I was spoiling them way to much previously and not providing the balanced diet they needed. You can read what I had been doing in my About Intro.

They were getting 1/2 oatmeal in the mornings with a little organic canned pumpkin and yogurt. In the evening i had been giving them some salad mix and cooked mixed vegetables. Along with about a cup of scratch tossed in their run daily. I have completely cut out the oatmeal, salad and vegetables. Cut their scratch down to 1/8 a cup.
Currently this is what I am feeding
Mornings.

• 2 cups of fermented Scratch and Peck Layer Feed (for winter I have been adding 5% cracked corn)

Evenings.

• 1/3 cup each of sprouted Wheat, Barley, Oats, and Peas. To this I have been adding a sprinkle of a homemade herb blend, fresh crushed garlic, and cayenne pepper
• 1/8-1/4 cup scratch (amount depends on the day and their ability to free range)

All Day Available.

• Scratch and Peck Layer Feed (5% cracked corn added for winter months)
• Scratch and Peck Organic Herbs (blended with feed according to instructions)

Once Weekly

• Tablespoon each of Organic Yogurt

Treats

• 3/4 - 1 cup Grubs daily
• Mixed Vegetables, Salad, or Fruit 1-2 times weekly
• 4"x 4" Homemade Flock Block 1 a week

 

[Eggcessive]

I use 17% layer pellets which my chickens take well. I notice the feed the OP is using has oat groves and seeds whole. My chickens will leave oat groves behind whenever they get the occasional treat of 5 way scratch grains. So, I would also probably switch to a layer pellet or crumble that has everything homogenized into each bite, just to keep them from selectively eating or any waste. Pam--Granny Hatchet, we all love you for your helpful comments and good humor.