Water Belly or Ovarian Cyst? AND Internal Layer? GRAPHIC PICS

[EweSheep]

So sorry about your hen however I find it very interesting to see the pictures of the autospy pictures and it does look like a cyst, very similar to a barren mare that we put down for science project to study horse anatomy for vet class. She had some watery looking bubbles, some are like quarter size and some where like baseball to softball size and one had a bowling ball size. It was a mess for this problematic mare. She would have been definately spayed if they would have caught it earlier but didn't. Glad we put her down (she also had very severe founder, uncurable at that time).

I often wonder if it is very genetic as well as egg impactations. So common in layers!

 

[Mountain Lori]

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Fascinating. I think I missed my calling.

Oh well, jack of all trades, master of none... lol. I did google Parthenogenesis. What I find most interesting is that the sex chromosome is the only one that does not replicate itself during doubling. I wonder why?

 

[Mountain Lori]

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Boy, do I feel kinda dumb... I just looked up ad libitum. It is not a chemical or ingredient. It is Latin for "at one's pleasure," or "ad lib" for short.

Why can't science journal-type people just write in plain English?

I guess this means that allowing free access to the feeder can over stimulate the ovary and cause excessive yolk production? So, how do you measure feed and make sure they all get their share? Looks like I'd better check out the posts in 'Feeding and Watering Your Flock.'

 

[DickGJ]

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I think scientists and lawyers both have great difficulty with "plain English"!

 

[stormylady]

I was just wondering if someone could post a picture of a live hen with this condition, I have a orpington/cochin mix that has a bare spot between her legs and on her abdamen (sp) and she looks "fat"for lack of a better word and it is not discolored at all, not bruised looking or really red ,just a normal pink color, but she is a really large girl so its hard to tell.. She acts perfectly fine , eating and drinking. How was your hen acting prior to passing but after the condition was notice? Was she eating alright, moving around normally , or was she showing other abnormal signs such as being tired or lathargic or anything?

Mountain Lori, Im so sorry for your loss of your hen. But I feel like this could really help some of us, namely me. I know how hard it must have been for you to do the autopsy on her but thankyou so much for sharing.

 

[chickensioux]

So sorry for the loss of your hen. Great photos tho' and thank you for that. As a former vet tech, I have yet to be able to necropsy my own. Last girl I lost to what we thought was internal laying found on necropsy (by a diagnostic center) to be congestive heart failure. She looked just like your hen, huge belly. Again, so sorry.

 

[Mountain Lori]

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I first noticed her condition maybe a couple of months ago. The first signs were feather loss and pinkness. From this start, her abdomen became obviously swollen, and squishy (soft) and the skin became very inflamed (bright red and kind of leathery), but I did not notice any change in her habits or personality. She continued to be one of the dominant ones and was always among the first to the feeder, to get treats, or to go outside. She was freeranging the day before she died and appeared to have no trouble getting around. When I close them up at night (when they're quiet and relaxed), I spend time observing and them and try to note any changes in behavior or roosting spots, etc. It's quiet so I can hear their breathing as well, and I never obsevered any changes in her behaviour or difficulties in her breathing. As for poop, I couldn't tell you, I have so many, but I never noticed any stuck to her vent, which always appeared clean and never seemed inflamed or distended. Although I've never seen the insides of a bird, her entire digestive tract looked normal to me. When I cut her open, her crop and gizzard were both full and there was material in her intestines and bowel, but I can't say whether she had passed any recently.

As I mentioned, I was also looking for information and pictures that matched her condition and couldn't find any. I wish I hadn't dragged my feet and had posted some pictures of her myself. Sorry your hen is not well. Maybe she is in molt? I had one who was acting weird and lost the feathers on her belly. Not knowing what to do (the other chickens were attacking her whenever she moved), I isolated her in a hospital cage in the house. She lost a whole bunch more feathers, but they grew back in quickly - I guess she was molting.

Along with the feather loss, I would watch for a change in skin color and texture. Although I've found lots of info on cystic oviducts and internal pictures to match mine, I still can't seem to find much on how to treat it. One article seemed to suggest that it can be drained regularly and they can live a fairly normal life. But what's 'normal?' Surely there must be a lot of pain associated with this condition, or are birds' pain pathways very different than ours?

Also, I'm sure this appearance can be caused by more than one condition (see the comment below):
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I'm curious if the diagnostic center noted any fluid in her abdomen? If so, how was it described? That could be the 'water belly' that I first thought my hen might have suffered from.

 

[Country4ever]

I'm starting to think that a buff orp I had for about 6 years had this problem. For 5 years, I drained her abdomen about every 3-4 months, and got clear, odorless fluid out. After the draining, she would be fine, until her abdomen filled up again. She never laid an egg and was always sort of puny, so she lived in a different pen from the rest of them. She was a sweetheart.
Interesting.
I just discovered another hen of mine today (black australorp) who has a very swollen abdomen. I might have to drain her. But her comb is smaller than the others, and she's always had an expiratory wheeze for years.....so maybe her heart isn't so great, and she has ascites. I wonder if there's any way for us to know the difference between this and a huge ovarian cyst?
I actually had another black australorp a few years ago who had a swollen abdomen, and I drained her, but her's was bright green fluid. I think she had peritonitis. She died shortly after that.
My hens are now 8 years old, so I guess I should be expecting alot of these problems.........but I still don't like it, and it still makes me sad! I had another one drop dead a couple weeks ago.

Anyhow.......thanks for posting these pictures and your experience with this.

 

[Mountain Lori]

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Thanks for posting. Can you describe how you drained your hen? Did you use a syringe or a catheter and where did you insert it? I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like to know how to tell the difference between the two conditions and what to do about each one.

 

[Country4ever]

Here is a copy of the instructions that I wrote awhile back. Let me know if you have any questions.


How to drain a chicken

I’m fortunate in that I obtained an “intracath” to drain my chickens. This is a small rubber tube that’s over a needle. Once I stick in the needle, I thread the tube over it, and pull the needle out. With this intracath, I don’t have to worry about puncturing an organ. But I don’t think they are available.

Supplies:
#18 gauge needle or intracath.
A 10 cc syringe
Collection cup
Cotton swab and alcohol

You must be very careful to stick the chicken in the right spot, or you could puncture an organ or a blood vessel. Actually, its good if the chicken is really full, because that helps to keep the needle from hurting anything else.

The best place to insert the needle is on the right side of the chicken’s abdomen……right close to where the leg is attached. It’s mid-way down the abdomen and off to the right side.

The first thing you do is pull out some feathers around where you will be inserting the needle.

This is really a 2 person job. The person holding the chicken should hold her like a football on their right side (the person’s right side). The chickens head will be under their arm and the chicken’s butt will be facing you and be up a little. Make sure they hold the wings down well. You don’t want the chicken taking off in the middle of this. But be careful not to squeeze the chicken so much that they can’t breathe. Their breathing is already compromised from all the fluid.

When you’ve decided on the best spot (over to the right side of the abdomen, about even to where the leg connects), clean the area with rubbing alcohol. Use preferably an 18 gauge needle to pierce the skin, going in only about ¼-1/3 inch in (bevel up). You don’t go straight down in, but more parallel. You should immediately get fluid out. In my experience, it’s a better sign to get clear liquid than green.
When fluid starts coming out, I use at least a 10 cc syringe to attach to the needle and begin to pull out fluid. Be very careful as you attach and detach your syringe, since you can easily accidentally move the needle around and it could puncture something important. If it accidentally comes out, put it in again.
There have been times when I pulled out hundreds of cc’s of fluid…….so be prepared for this to take a little while. Have a container there to collect a lot of fluid in.

When it starts getting hard to withdraw any fluid, have the other person gently tilt the chicken around a little, to help trapped fluid get over to where the needle is. Fluid should come out easily…….so don’t pull back on the plunger too hard or you might hurt the chicken.
My hen always continued to drain fluid onto her bedding for about a day….which was a good thing. In fact, I’m thinking if some people don’t feel comfortable about using a syringe to withdraw fluid, maybe they could just make a needle hole or 2, and let the fluid passively flow out.

I always give my hen a 22.7mg Baytril before I drain her, and then 2 pills a day for 2 days afterwards. I don’t know if this is completely necessary, but it’s what my vet told me to do.
We drain our chicken in our house, on a plastic covered ironing board. Put it where there’s lots of light so you can see better. I think doing it in the house is a lot cleaner than in the coop.
You could possibly put triple antibiotic ointment over the needle site afterwards, but I never wanted to obstruct the outflow of anymore fluid, so I quit doing it.

There is always the chance of the hen having big problems once all this fluid is taken out, but in my experience, they actually feel sooooooo much better. My hen Nobie suddenly becomes very active and eats a ton of food. She usually doesn’t poop at all when she’s full of fluid, but poops constantly afterwards.
Always look for signs of infection for about a week afterwards.

If your chicken’s breathing is too compromised from someone holding her like this, you can figure out a way to get her up higher….like a TV tray on top of a card table….so that she can be set up on there, with someone just stabilizing her, and you can drain her from below. This way, no one has to hold her too tightly for her to breath. When they are full of fluid, holding them seems to make it close to impossible for them to breath. But I think its easier to deal with the procedure, if someone can hold them.
Good luck!