What is causing my girls to die?! Marek's??

[MamaManda]

My flock is experiencing a bunch of weird symptoms which, after days of research, still have me stumped. I've attached a video of the current issues with one of my hens. I had to put down one of my 12 week olds this evening after finding her two days ago laying on her side, unable to use her legs or stand up. She was running around the yard the day before, just fine. She gradually declined until I was certain I was just keeping her alive. 2 days before, I noticed my 1 year old Wellsummer sitting by herself in the run. I moved her to our garden shed for the night, and found her dead the next morning. I never noticed any symptoms from her either. I've checked all of them over for mites, lice, bumble foot, scaly leg, checked their poop for worms, etc. They are on an organic layer pellet, an organic cracked corn, barley, and wheat scratch, with oyster shell available. They also free range on non treated grass occasionally.
Here is Ruthie. She had these same symptoms about 2 months ago, I isolated and doctored her for about a week and she recovered, only to relapse now. Same symptoms of unsteady walk, tail dropping suddenly, sitting back on her legs, and suddenly falling to her side. She eats and drinks normally. I've also included pics of her poop that she left within a couple hours of each other.
Does this look familiar to anyone? Think it's related? Could it be Marek's? Crazy coincidence? (Not sure I can believe it is) I would love to hear ideas/thoughts from anyone!

And then there is this:

 

[One Chick Two]

Bump

Hopefully someone can come along and help you with this. Best to you.

 

[MamaManda]

Bump

Hopefully someone can come along and help you with this. Best to you.

Thank you One Chick Two!

Ruthie is presently about the same. I put her out in a part of the yard by herself this afternoon, as she was not happy being cooped up, and when I went out to check on her, she had fallen over in the flowerbed in the hot afternoon sun and was panting. I quickly picked her up, got her some water with electrolytes and a probiotic, and food, and put her in the shade. Also gave her some mealworms for extra protein. She was trying to stand up when she saw her food, but could only walk quickly in a big circle before she fell onto her side again. I have her propped up next to her food and water and she still seems alert and happy to see me when I check on her.

I would really appreciate hearing from anyone that has seen or dealt with this!!
Thanks in advance!

 

[MamaManda]

Could it be Scaly Leg Mites?? Ruthie is my first and only feathered leg bird, and I DID check her feet when I first noticed her having trouble walking, and I noticed that her scales were more raised than the other hens, but I figured it was because of the feathers....Here's a few pictures. Hopefully you can see well enough - I had to take them while holding her.




I've treated her for it, just in case that is what it is, but she is presently trying to eat all the petroleum jelly off her feet and cleaning her leg feathers.
I'd really like to know if I'm doing the right thing.....
I really like Ruthie and would hate to not know what's going on until it's too late.

 

[seminolewind]

The first thing that comes to mind is Marek's. Especially because you've had another hen do the same thing. Usually they don't look sick, but can't walk. If they waste away, they're only tired and lethargic at the end.

Have you brought new birds home in the last few months? 6-12 weeks is the most common time to show symptoms of Marek's. But I would not stop checking for other things like maybe a vitamin deficiency. Usually B vitamins.

There's some great reading from the link at the bottom of my posts called the Big FAQ for Marek's. It's very well written.

 

[MamaManda]

The first thing that comes to mind is Marek's. Especially because you've had another hen do the same thing. Usually they don't look sick, but can't walk. If they waste away, they're only tired and lethargic at the end.

Have you brought new birds home in the last few months? 6-12 weeks is the most common time to show symptoms of Marek's. But I would not stop checking for other things like maybe a vitamin deficiency. Usually B vitamins.

There's some great reading from the link at the bottom of my posts called the Big FAQ for Marek's. It's very well written.

Thank you for this Seminolewind.
That's exactly what mine are doing. I've lost 3 so far in just the last week, and they have all had slightly different symptoms. I just sent a 12 week old bird into the WSU Avian Health Lab for a necropsy, and the results were "lymphoma caused by Marek's". I just thought Ruthie may have had something else based on how she recovered from her last little episode, and her symptoms were different than the other birds. The other birds all were unable to walk or stand suddenly, where Ruthie just seemed to be loosing her balance at first, and the other birds died much quicker. But she has a very prominent breast bone, even though she is eating, and it is obvious now that she is wasting away. As of tonight, I have asked my husband to cull her tomorrow. She cannot stand at all now, and I'm afraid she is past the point of return.

We have a flock of 1-3 year old birds and a new flock of 12 week old birds that are kept separate, but in the same yard. Our 12 week old flock has a "rehabbed" bird of a friends that is the same age. She became very ill from what they thought was wry neck. When she had recovered, and was reintroduced to her flock, she was picked on, and her owner asked me to take her in. I was not aware at the time that wry neck is a symptom of Marek's, or that I should have been very cautious allowing a recently sick bird into my flock. VERY STUPID and heartbreaking. That is the only link I can to associate it with. My other birds are all over a year old and quite healthy before this happened. I am now facing the decision of whether I should cull and start over...or not. I started a new thread here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/890341/mareks-do-i-cull-them-all and would appreciate it if anyone with advice could weigh in.

I have actually come across the Marek's symptoms you have linked to...it was very informative - and depressing.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Any organ in a chickens body can develop lymphoma or tumors caused by the Mareks disease virus. Even a chicken's skin can develop Mareks.

Therefor symptoms of Mareks Disease or Range Paralyses vary depending to which organ or organs are involved. A Mareks chicken is never cured, but you can with enough blood, sweat, toil, and tears save the life of a Mareks chicken and by saving its life you turn it into a Mareks Marry chicken, who for as long as it lives will repay your kindness by sharing its Mareks virus with your healthy birds. Is it any wonder then that I refuse to treat or nurse ill chickens. There is no future in doing so. Tis better to cull them and to cull them quickly.

Google "gander eye" "gray eye" or "chicken eyes with Mareks" and if you see this condition in either free, rescued, or chickens offered for sale, run don't just walk away.

Not all chickens with Mareks have eyes like this but enough do to avoid them like the plague.

http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/a...las/files/avian_atlas_assets/MD-024A x750.jpg

of the three eyes in this link only the center photo or eye is Mareks free.

Carefully watch the photos people post of their chickens and see how many latent cases of Mareks you can spot.

 

[MamaManda]

Any organ in a chickens body can develop lymphoma or tumors caused by the Mareks disease virus. Even a chicken's skin can develop Mareks.

Therefor symptoms of Mareks Disease or Range Paralyses vary depending to which organ or organs are involved. A Mareks chicken is never cured, but you can with enough blood, sweat, toil, and tears save the life of a Mareks chicken and by saving its life you turn it into a Mareks Marry chicken, who for as long as it lives will repay your kindness by sharing its Mareks virus with your healthy birds. Is it any wonder then that I refuse to treat or nurse ill chickens. There is no future in doing so. Tis better to cull them and to cull them quickly.

Google "gander eye" "gray eye" or "chicken eyes with Mareks" and if you see this condition in either free, rescued, or chickens offered for sale, run don't just walk away.

Not all chickens with Mareks have eyes like this but enough do to avoid them like the plague.

http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/a...las/files/avian_atlas_assets/MD-024A x750.jpg

of the three eyes in this link only the center photo or eye is Mareks free.

Carefully watch the photos people post of their chickens and see how many latent cases of Mareks you can spot.

3 weeks ago I would have had a hard time swallowing your refusal to treat or nurse ill chickens....but now I am of the same opinion. All of my obviously symptomatic birds have been put down. Here's a question for you - about the friend's "rehabbed" bird I mentioned above. She is not really showing any symptoms now, after recovering from what her owner thought was wry neck, except that she has some coordination issues, and seems to be loosing more feathers than normal. Would you also recommend culling, since she would be carrying the virus, assuming the wry neck, or symptoms similar to wry neck, were a result of Marek's? I'm not sure they were, as she has never been tested, but now that I am serious about eliminating this from my flock - or even culling them all, I wonder what I should do with her. Your advice would be appreciated.

Also, I wonder if you might know if Marek's affects parrots? I have an Amazon parrot that is often outside on the patio and both coops are within 60' of the patio. If so, has she likely already been exposed??

I've been carefully examining my adult birds for "gander eye"...so far I can't pick any of the birds out as definitely carrying the virus, but I will definitely remember this if I ever think of bringing in new birds....which I highly doubt I will after this experience.
Thank you for your post.

 

[seminolewind]

Marek's does not affect other birds.
You will always have it.
There is life after Marek's, just a bit different.
Vaccinate all day old chicks. Or get them vaccinated at a hatchery. Hatcheries can attain better vaccine than we can. Keep this chicks under strict quarantine for 2-8 weeks. The longer the better.
If you bring any unvaccinated bird home, it will be at risk for a Marek's death.
Don't allow chicken people on your property, or worn them that they have to scrub their shoes and remove their clothes immediately when getting home.

Some of your flock will die. Some will not. There is no way to tell which ones. If they are over a year old, chances are better that they live.

Sorry. I just cringe when I hear of someone new discovering Marek's in their flock. It's hard for back yarders to not come home with chickens from the store, swaps, auctions, a friend,

My chicks laid from Marek hen eggs have some resistance. If mom hatches them, they don't survive. But incubated and quarantined for a few months, they seem to do well. I've only done a few that way with good results, so it's a small experimental group.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

My chicks laid from Marek hen eggs have some resistance. If mom hatches them, they don't survive.

But incubated and quarantined for a few months, they seem to do well. I've only done a few that way with good results, so it's a small experimental group.

The reason is that Mareks is primarily spread from chicken dandruff or the shed sheaths of "blood" feathers. Chicks hovered or brooded by a Mareks positive hen will get a much more concentrated dose of Mareks "dandruff" than chicks hatched or raised in a brooder.

It is true that Mareks is everywhere in a chickens' environment but like with almost all diseases and chemicals, them don't harm us unless we get a lethal dose.

And while not all chicks will contract Mareks I don't tempt fate if I have a reasonably sure case.