- Jul 6, 2010
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epeloquin--I'm not insulting your intelligence nor disrespecting you and really don't want to get into some sort of p'ing contest with you. I am just saying that, by and larger, most sightings of mt. lions in the Northeast are by people who want to see them and laymen are confusing what they see with something else. It is just those "I saw a mt. lion" reports by people with little or no credibility that I question, especially when there is no hard evidence or subsequent sightings to back them up. Unquestionably there are either transit animals or released/escaped animals in the northeast--this has been confirmed by DEC biologist who have access to DNA information neither you nor I have. I have read that 1993 report as well as the follow up by the DEC officer in Keene Valley and, while the report you cite says likely not--the operative word is "likely--the animal was found to be a released S. American, origin puma. (The assumption being that it was released, not escaped.)
As far as my extrapolation--I'm just using logic based on what is known about animals reestablishing territory. By way of example: I live in what is perhaps the third "wildest" part of NYS outside of the Catskill and Adirondack Parks--over a third of this area is heavy, second growth forest, CCC plantations and it is expanding. When I first moved here 46 years ago there were occasional black bear sightings that were poo-pooed by the DEC biologists who said there were no bears in this area since they had been hunted out in the early 1900's. Then, about 20 years ago a young boar was hit and killed on the highway. "OK" said the DEC "there may be wandering males looking for new territory passing through but no breeding population." Then 10 years ago a sow and cubs were spotted and the DEC conceded there were bears here. There are now bears spotted in urban areas and we have open season on them. The point being that, yes, animals, even large ones, can repopulate areas if the habitat suits them. The same thing is true about moose in the Adirondack Park--there is now a breeding population of about 500 that have repopulated the area in the last 10/15 years. But, in both cases these populations have expanded from another, fairly close area--bears from the Catskills and N. PA and moose from New England. (The eastern coyote/wolf cross has also come in from Canada in the last 70 years too). However, there is no near population of mt lions to the northeast. The nearest confirmed breeding population is west of the Mississippi in the Dakotas--where they have also reestablished themselves from further west-- and that is a long trek to NY. Granted it was made by at least one young male and it is quite possible for others to do it as well, but it took him 2 years so I doubt a female with cubs could do it. Logic says that for there to be mt. lions in this area they would have to move in from someplace else and there is no place else. Of course the alternative would be restocking--that has been done by the NYS DEC with linx and fishers--but the DEC denies this so I have to believe them.
Like I said in a previous post--I'd love to know there was an established, breeding population of cougars in NYS or the Northeast, it is just that there is not real proof (a single sighting of "a mother and cubs" by a hunter is not proof) that this is true. Also I am aware from when I was a student at the NYS College of Forestry back in the '50's and I took a couple of courses in wildlife management that the population of wildlife is limited to the funding and range of graduate students. This could well mean there are mt lions back in areas of the Adirondack and White Mountains were no one has seen them and they are extending their population--I just seriously doubt it.
If you say you've seen one, okay fine. I have a very good friend who has lived 66 of his 72 years in the Adirondacks--he currently is in Newton--and grew up with parents and grandparents that were hunters/woodsmen so he knows animals and his way around in the woods. I know him very well and he says that he's sure he saw one cross the road one night. But even when I try to pin him down, he admits he isn't exactly sure it was a mt lion or a linx or just a big cat since, aside from zoos and pictures, he's never seen one in the wild that was positively IDed. That may be where the truth of these sightings lies.
epeloquin--I'm not insulting your intelligence nor disrespecting you and really don't want to get into some sort of p'ing contest with you. I am just saying that, by and larger, most sightings of mt. lions in the Northeast are by people who want to see them and laymen are confusing what they see with something else. It is just those "I saw a mt. lion" reports by people with little or no credibility that I question, especially when there is no hard evidence or subsequent sightings to back them up. Unquestionably there are either transit animals or released/escaped animals in the northeast--this has been confirmed by DEC biologist who have access to DNA information neither you nor I have. I have read that 1993 report as well as the follow up by the DEC officer in Keene Valley and, while the report you cite says likely not--the operative word is "likely--the animal was found to be a released S. American, origin puma. (The assumption being that it was released, not escaped.)
As far as my extrapolation--I'm just using logic based on what is known about animals reestablishing territory. By way of example: I live in what is perhaps the third "wildest" part of NYS outside of the Catskill and Adirondack Parks--over a third of this area is heavy, second growth forest, CCC plantations and it is expanding. When I first moved here 46 years ago there were occasional black bear sightings that were poo-pooed by the DEC biologists who said there were no bears in this area since they had been hunted out in the early 1900's. Then, about 20 years ago a young boar was hit and killed on the highway. "OK" said the DEC "there may be wandering males looking for new territory passing through but no breeding population." Then 10 years ago a sow and cubs were spotted and the DEC conceded there were bears here. There are now bears spotted in urban areas and we have open season on them. The point being that, yes, animals, even large ones, can repopulate areas if the habitat suits them. The same thing is true about moose in the Adirondack Park--there is now a breeding population of about 500 that have repopulated the area in the last 10/15 years. But, in both cases these populations have expanded from another, fairly close area--bears from the Catskills and N. PA and moose from New England. (The eastern coyote/wolf cross has also come in from Canada in the last 70 years too). However, there is no near population of mt lions to the northeast. The nearest confirmed breeding population is west of the Mississippi in the Dakotas--where they have also reestablished themselves from further west-- and that is a long trek to NY. Granted it was made by at least one young male and it is quite possible for others to do it as well, but it took him 2 years so I doubt a female with cubs could do it. Logic says that for there to be mt. lions in this area they would have to move in from someplace else and there is no place else. Of course the alternative would be restocking--that has been done by the NYS DEC with linx and fishers--but the DEC denies this so I have to believe them.
Like I said in a previous post--I'd love to know there was an established, breeding population of cougars in NYS or the Northeast, it is just that there is not real proof (a single sighting of "a mother and cubs" by a hunter is not proof) that this is true. Also I am aware from when I was a student at the NYS College of Forestry back in the '50's and I took a couple of courses in wildlife management that the population of wildlife is limited to the funding and range of graduate students. This could well mean there are mt lions back in areas of the Adirondack and White Mountains were no one has seen them and they are extending their population--I just seriously doubt it.
If you say you've seen one, okay fine. I have a very good friend who has lived 66 of his 72 years in the Adirondacks--he currently is in Newton--and grew up with parents and grandparents that were hunters/woodsmen so he knows animals and his way around in the woods. I know him very well and he says that he's sure he saw one cross the road one night. But even when I try to pin him down, he admits he isn't exactly sure it was a mt lion or a linx or just a big cat since, aside from zoos and pictures, he's never seen one in the wild that was positively IDed. That may be where the truth of these sightings lies.
