what is this on my game-cam?

[mamadukes5]

"BTW, don't be so hard on game wardens. These are not wildlife experts but law enforcement people and, as such, know the law but shouldn't be expected to know what nonnative wildlife is in their area much unless trained to spot it. To be honest I wouldn't expect a game warden to be any more reliable in spotting a cougar than any average hunter, not to mention a nonoutdoorsman or neophyte. (Have any of ever you looked into the research done on the discrepancy in eye witnesses to crimes? They can be huge. Now put someone in the woods, scare them and let them get a glimpse at an unidentified animal--wallah, cougar. Heck there have been reports of African lions in the Scranton, PA area.) When a wildlife biologist who is actively looking into the reports of cougars--or any other "exotic" animal in a particular area--says they aren't there or the sightings are nonlocal in origin but either released exotics or wandering animals, you have to respect that."

I hit quote, but it doesn't seem to have marked it as a quote, so just wanted to point out that above is someone else's post.


While I understand that game wardens are not wildlife experts and I don't expect them to know everything, when the ones around here consistently tell me I'm crazy, it irritates me. And then when I show the man pictures, he says that the coyotes must have just arrived, that's nonsense. He and his bosses do not want the people of the town I live in to think that there is anything dangerous around, so they just keep with the same line of crap. I don't profess to be an expert at anything, but I do not lie right to someone's face just because my job is easier that way. And yes, I certainly respect wildlife biologists, but when the game wardens are telling them that there is no sign, and local hunters and property owners are saying that there are, who should the biologists believe? Some of the other fishermen and guards at the Quabbin reservoir have told me that they have seen signs of a breeding population of cougars, and some of the others say no such thing, and the biologist's reports are based on conflicting testimony, whoever they believe is then credible. I've seen the cougars, and the prints and the scat and the fur of the cats, at Quabbin for the better part of five years, yet the biologists are still saying that there aren't any there based on a limited amount of research and the reports of the game wardens...who in general in my neck of the woods, lie.

 

[woodmort]

Quote:
I know or have known quite a few game wardens and state wildlife biologists and I really don't think they lie as much as repeat what they know or what has been made known to them. First, I'm sure if any of these people saw a cougar in the wild they would agree that they were there. Second, there have been confirmed sightings of cougars in NYS--at least one by a game warden--it is just that when tests were made the animal proved to either be a released exotic of SA origin or one that wandered in from 100's of miles away. That was confirmed by the one in the Adirondacks and the one hit by a car in CT. Now if there are one or two around under these circumstances and if the biologists know about it, I would suspect they'd prefer to keep it under wraps to avoid some knuckleheads from hunting it down. Finally, I just figure that, with very limited funding, they don't have the money to chase down sightings of animals reported by the average Joe that may or may not know what he actually saw. I always get a charge out of those History, National Geographic and Discovery Channel shows where there are scientist and quasi-scientists searching for some rare or purported animal, humanoid or alien based on sighting and legend. In spite of sophisticated gear and logic, they never find them. Why should the state game dept. spend funds chasing down a cougar sighting when they believe none exists? If, like the coyote/wolf crosses, enough repopulate the area then someone will research them.

BTW, my story. On August 14, 1945 I saw a mother coyote and 3 pups on the banks of the Schoharie Creek in the Catskills Mts. just downstream from Hunter NY. I know what I saw in spite of the fact I was only 6 at the time. At that point in time the NYS DEC insisted there were no coyotes in the state. Several years later they acknowledged that "Yes there were a few that were crossbreeding with dogs." In 1956 while at the NYS College of Forestry I got into a conversation with a professor that taught wildlife biology and told him of my 1945 sighting. He laughed and said that some biologist pretty much knew the animals were in NYS in the late 1930's and were a viable breeding(not crosses) population by 1940. So you have reason to be skeptical but that doesn't mean that the game warden is lying to you--he just isn't party to the information and, as such, is probably skeptical.

 

[007pennpal]

dretd,
First, I don't work for you. I wanted to offer an observation. I have done so in order to help. I am not going to be assigned homework from you. If you want a scientists advise then seek it yourself. Good luck with the way you treat people offering free help.
Sean

 

[harveyhorses]

Quote:
I know or have known quite a few game wardens and state wildlife biologists and I really don't think they lie as much as repeat what they know or what has been made known to them. First, I'm sure if any of these people saw a cougar in the wild they would agree that they were there. Second, there have been confirmed sightings of cougars in NYS--at least one by a game warden--it is just that when tests were made the animal proved to either be a released exotic of SA origin or one that wandered in from 100's of miles away. That was confirmed by the one in the Adirondacks and the one hit by a car in CT. Now if there are one or two around under these circumstances and if the biologists know about it, I would suspect they'd prefer to keep it under wraps to avoid some knuckleheads from hunting it down. Finally, I just figure that, with very limited funding, they don't have the money to chase down sightings of animals reported by the average Joe that may or may not know what he actually saw. I always get a charge out of those History, National Geographic and Discovery Channel shows where there are scientist and quasi-scientists searching for some rare or purported animal, humanoid or alien based on sighting and legend. In spite of sophisticated gear and logic, they never find them. Why should the state game dept. spend funds chasing down a cougar sighting when they believe none exists? If, like the coyote/wolf crosses, enough repopulate the area then someone will research them.

BTW, my story. On August 14, 1945 I saw a mother coyote and 3 pups on the banks of the Schoharie Creek in the Catskills Mts. just downstream from Hunter NY. I know what I saw in spite of the fact I was only 6 at the time. At that point in time the NYS DEC insisted there were no coyotes in the state. Several years later they acknowledged that "Yes there were a few that were crossbreeding with dogs." In 1956 while at the NYS College of Forestry I got into a conversation with a professor that taught wildlife biology and told him of my 1945 sighting. He laughed and said that some biologist pretty much knew the animals were in NYS in the late 1930's and were a viable breeding(not crosses) population by 1940. So you have reason to be skeptical but that doesn't mean that the game warden is lying to you--he just isn't party to the information and, as such, is probably skeptical.

So you know what you saw, but since VA does not have mt lions it must have been something else I saw? REALLY? You want it both ways and it is just not flying with me.

 

[Froghorn]

Yes. You have a fox, a crow, and a cougar. No doubt!!! Where are you located.

 

[mamadukes5]

Quote:
I know or have known quite a few game wardens and state wildlife biologists and I really don't think they lie as much as repeat what they know or what has been made known to them. ... Now if there are one or two around under these circumstances and if the biologists know about it, I would suspect they'd prefer to keep it under wraps to avoid some knuckleheads from hunting it down. quote]

You are making my point for me, they lie. Keeping it under wraps by not telling the truth, is lying.

[quote "Finally, I just figure that, with very limited funding, they don't have the money to chase down sightings of animals reported by the average Joe that may or may not know what he actually saw. I always get a charge out of those History, National Geographic and Discovery Channel shows where there are scientist and quasi-scientists searching for some rare or purported animal, humanoid or alien based on sighting and legend. In spite of sophisticated gear and logic, they never find them. Why should the state game dept. spend funds chasing down a cougar sighting when they believe none exists? If, like the coyote/wolf crosses, enough repopulate the area then someone will research them." quote]


And this is the reason why I'm having a hard time with your posts. I understand inferences are lost while typing, and i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, but why is it that any "Average Joe" who sees something that biologists "keep under wraps" is immediately compared to someone who sees Bigfoot? I don't need a cryptozoologist, I have coyotes in my back yard, I have seen cougars at the Quabbin, this does not make me an idiot or a lunatic just because the powers that be don't admit that these animals are here. I just got a digital camera and on my next fishing trip, I'm taking it with me. If i can post pics, will that make me less crazy?

[quote BTW, my story. On August 14, 1945 I saw a mother coyote and 3 pups on the banks of the Schoharie Creek in the Catskills Mts. just downstream from Hunter NY. I know what I saw in spite of the fact I was only 6 at the time. At that point in time the NYS DEC insisted there were no coyotes in the state. Several years later they acknowledged that "Yes there were a few that were crossbreeding with dogs." In 1956 while at the NYS College of Forestry I got into a conversation with a professor that taught wildlife biology and told him of my 1945 sighting. He laughed and said that some biologist pretty much knew the animals were in NYS in the late 1930's and were a viable breeding(not crosses) population by 1940. So you have reason to be skeptical but that doesn't mean that the game warden is lying to you--he just isn't party to the information and, as such, is probably skeptical.

And you have contradicted yourself, first you say that the game wardens are keeping things under wraps so as not to inspire the local knuckleheads (like me?) out of the woods, and here you are saying they aren't party to the information. My game warden is fully aware, with photographs and other evidence, and yet he keeps smiling at me and telling me I'm imagining things. Now granted, I'm ticked because this man is getting on my last nerve, and I apologize if I'm reading you the wrong way, but your attitude in your post is remarkably similar to his, which is why I may be over reacting. If so, again I apologize, but comparing people who LIVE in the area and are there all of the time to see what actually lives there, on multiple occassions "Average Joes" like they don't know anything, is belittling to the people who are in the best place to really KNOW what's living there.

 

[wyoDreamer]

I will chime in again and say I don't believe it is a couger.
Unfortunately, I don't think you will be able to convince me otherwise unless you can produce a photo of a cougar that has skinny legs.

Yes the color looks right - on a game cam photo taken at night. But, this animal is not very big. My little housecats are not that much smaller than what is in the picture. My big housecat I had fifteen years ago was probably close to that size, and she was not nearly as big as the largest tomcat that I have seen.

Also, every picture I have seen of a cougar (and no, I have never seen one in the wild) shows an animal that has a fairly large, stocky leg with big feet. Especially the cubs! They always look like they are all feet. As a species, they need leg bones that will support the weight and strength of running, grabbing, killing and dragging large game animals. The animal in the picture has such fine, thin legs that I find it hard to believe that it is a cougar.

I believe that there is enough evidence presented to say there could be cougars in the area. I just don't think this is one of them.

Editted to add: if it was a cougar, I would expect to see the legs at least twice as thick as they are

 

[grawg]

A question to last til the end of time? What IS the UPA (Unidentified Predatory Animal) on dinahmoes cam?

Animal in question:

Known grey fox:

Known cougar:

Grey fox or cougar? You decide...

 

[remadl700]

Quote:
You should also point out the actual time frame of the other pics in this series. I tried to do this on an earlier post but I think it was largely ignored.
As I have stated before it’s a feline of some type exotic or local.

The bigger issue I see is trying to size the animal against the background and contrasting it with actual pictures of suggested feline types. The Poster has noted that the animal has not been seen/captured on film since these were taken. Suggesting that it is roaming a large area??

 

[mstrrlm]

Well I can tell you beyond ANY REASONABLE Doubt it is NOT a Gray Fox!!! You know there is one or two jokers on here spotting all this garbage about well no known sightings etc.... First of all READ what it says no KNOWN being the operable word meaning THEY don't know!!!!! With that being said you can read what you want and think that makes you wise or an expert, but until YOU personally and at the same time can explore and check every nook and craney in a state you CAN NOT make a factual based statement about a species being in a state or not!!! The only statement that can be factual it they are confirmed via picture, expert witness, or DNA other than that they can only classify it as NOT KNOWN. So please STOP your stupid uneducated guess to what happens in a world in which you CLEARLY hav no understanding of. Probably of the few that are running there mouths here most ave never see or been around wildlife except for the occasional deer or rabbit in their backyard.