what is this on my game-cam?

[epeloquin]

I have been away from this thread for a while because I get tired of Mr. Know-it-all, the self appointed wildlife authority for the Eastern seaboard of the United States.

If this debate is about the pic dated 8/22/2011 I don't know how anyone could not clearly see that this is a fox. I will be the first to say that mt. lions are still in many northeast and southeast states (albeit in small numbers). There are many, many confirmed (not exotics) and unconfirmed reports of mt. lions. But in this case, it is definitely not a mt. lion, it is a fox.

 

[zzGypsy]

Quote:
um, just speaking for this part of team fox...
atribution of people's motives is a tricky thing... not so sure I'd claim to know what's in anothers head, or purpose, much less claim to generalize the same statements to a whole variety of them. especially since they've joined the team at different times and through different processes.

I'm not focusing on "not cougar" because they're the obvious opposition. it's not a competition, and there's no prize. I don't get anything for being right. or wrong. Just happen to have photo analysis skills as part of my trade, and applied my skills to a problem. I simply did a photo analysis of 3 photos that had been provided... the animal in discussion, a gray fox, and a couger.

and, BTW, came up with the opposite answer from what I expected to come up with. I expected to come up with "cat" of unknown type. instead, the tools lead me clearly to "fox". so much for having an agenda.

and the reason I'm not focusing on the likelyhood of it being a house cat or jaguarundi is because there is no need. comparing the photos of the unknown animal and the gray fox yields a pretty good match. jaguarundi is the wrong color so it's out anyway. house cat? aproximate size range is good, but the build is wrong.
sticking with fox.
maybe I'll get to that photo enhancement tonight.

 

[ellieroo]

9Catzs

http://www.google.com/search?q=pict...&ei=g_KJTtClFquAsgLvl9WnDw&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQsAQ

first row 3rd pic in tail on cat not straight also then on page 24 and 27

note cat closest to camera. I think it was feline but not mt lion as soon as the size was determined. But since we are dancing for some reason enjoy these ...

 

[BWKatz]

I'm no expert but I tend to go with fox because of facial shape. Even with very slender cats such as siamese and absinians the snout is not that pronounced. Whatever it is, I'd be looking out for my chicks safety.

 

[greenkalki]

Let me put it this way... I have seen Florida panthers (Puma concolor=same as cougar, mountain lion, puma, etc.) and gray fox, both in the wild and in captivity, and I have lived with house cats (among many other species) my entire life. My wife and I are active in animal rescue, including domestic (dog, cat, farm, etc.), exotic (feral/escaped/released nonnatives), and wildlife. My initial reaction to the gamecam photos was "what kind of cat is that?" Panther and fox never occurred to me because my experiences of actual encounters with these animals, does not allow me to be deceived by something, that to me, is clearly not one of these two animals. Typically, when one is familiar with an animal's appearance, habits, behavior, etc., the familiar animal is instantly recognized. That's why I'm convinced that it's a feline. That's what "jumps out" to me. That also seems to be the initial response of most people posting here. After all, everyone on team big cat thinks it's feline, and a number of people on team fox admit that they were initially on team big cat, meaning their instinct said "cat." Add to that, the extensive posts on here by team fox, who have reinforced my gut feelings by thoroughly debunking team big cat, and the extensive post by team big cat, who have likewise reinforced my initial instincts, by thoroughly debunking team fox... both camps have left me more convinced than ever that we are dealing with a cat.

The best arguments presented for this being a fox, require us to embrace that this is a gray fox with mange. This is highly unlikely, as the gray fox is resistant to mange. In addition, my experience with animals with mange, is that they don't loose their hair uniformly on the entire body, but instead loose it in random patches. Also, where hair loss does occur on mangy animals, it's usually lost all the way to the skin, not appearing as if it were trimmed to a uniformed length. In short, that's the healthiest looking mangy fox in the world. It has also been suggested that the "fox" might be shedding, and that's why his tail and coat are thiner than all the other gray fox on every available google image of grey fox. The main problem with that argument, is that we are at exactly the opposite time of year for shedding to occur in the northern hemisphere. Autumn is the time to put on weight and grow a thicker coat in preparation for winter, not the time to shed.

Another issue I have with team fox is the fact that the gray fox territory is usually less than a square mile. Also, dispersal distances of young gray fox are short. Most young grays relocate and select new home ranges within a mile of their birthplace. For that reason, high densities of gray fox can sometimes be found in suitable habitats. Taking this into consideration, this camera should have picked up several more photos, on subsequent days, of this animal, or others of its species, if in fact it were a gray fox.

I sent a link to this discussion to a woman at a big cat rescue, here in Florida, and this is her response:

"Looks like a domestic cat to me because of the tabby stripes, long tail and size. It appears to be a male, marking territory via spraying."

Now, as someone who is extremely familiar with big cats, including Puma concolor, she would know one when she sees one, and in these photos, she didn't see one. On the other hand, she knows a feline when she sees one, and she did see one in the photos. If she were looking at something she was less familiar with, (say... a gray fox?) she might have said something like "not sure what it is, but it doesn't look like a cat to me." It looked enough like a cat, to a cat expert, for her to say "looks like a domestic cat." Now when I saw the "tabby stripes," I thought it was the ribs of a thin cat, but after reading her response, I took a closer look and noticed that the end of the tail, in photo #2, clearly has bands, or "tabby stripes." The motion of the animal in the other photos makes the stripes blur, causing the appearance of a dark tipped tail, but a closer look at the tail in photo #2 confirms that we are not only dealing with a cat, but it appears to be a tabby... arguably, the most common of all house cats.

 

[9Catsz]

Quote:
Show me a picture of a house cat and a jaguarundi holding its tail in the EXACT same position that the OP's animal is holding its tail and I'll consider those two options. Also show me a jaguarundi that is as light as the OP's animal.

Quote:
Oh please, eliminated gray fox? What post had that revelation? I've read this entire thread and I at first thought it was a cat until other posters brought up gray fox and I switched to gray fox mainly because of how the animal carries its tail. The tail position is all we really have to go by...It's the most distinct part of every pic of the animal in question and it's a trait of a gray fox.

 

[ellieroo]

http://www.google.com/search?q=jaguarundi&hl=en&biw=1062&bih=625&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OTmKTtmgNpGCsgLAopi5Dw&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQsAQ

Lots of pics of jaguarundi please note tail on p.5 farright tis a tail with curl at the end then p 15 top left and note body color. I had no idea either that their color varied so much but there you go, it does seem another plausible possibility!

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Here are the photos in question as ideal examples of matching coat color and tail position, this is what come up when I open the browser so please let me know if yours are different pictures and download the images that are correct and post them:
p15 top left coat color:

to my eye, this color is a pretty solid tan with no dark agouti upper and light under with a dark tail stripe and tip.
p5 far right:

The running jaguarundi is not holding its tail in that position, the tail is flowing after the cat straight behind because its running

Please post a photo of a jaguarundo with this color contrast and dark tail. I have yet to find any pictures of jaguarundi with this color and yet to find a grey fox tat does not match this color.

 

[greenkalki]

Quote:
Show me a picture of a house cat and a jaguarundi holding its tail in the EXACT same position that the OP's animal is holding its tail and I'll consider those two options. Also show me a jaguarundi that is as light as the OP's animal.

Quote:
Oh please, eliminated gray fox? What post had that revelation? I've read this entire thread and I at first thought it was a cat until other posters brought up gray fox and I switched to gray fox mainly because of how the animal carries its tail. The tail position is all we really have to go by...It's the most distinct part of every pic of the animal in question and it's a trait of a gray fox.

This is the problem with all this cyberanalysis... You want me to present a photo of a cat with it's tail in the exact same position, as if the still photos in question are the result of a particular species striking a pose from a limited repertoire of favorites. This isn't a poultry show, mammals don't have feathers that rest I the same way when the tail is held in a particular position. Mammals have tails made up of articulate vertebrae that are constantly adjusting while the animal is in motion, in order to maintain balance (among other things). I just happen to be in a room full of cats and dogs, and no two are holding their tails in the EXACT same positions, even the ones that are not moving. Another observation is that the tails of felines are more articulate than the tails of canines. So whatever photos you are able to glean from google that happen to capture the tail of a fox in the same positions as the animal's in question, a cat can easily accomplish that same position by virtue of it's more flexible tail. Among the endless arguments in favor of the grey fox, are the similarities between grey fox and cats, now you are implying that the fox is more like a cat than a cat is, therefore the animal that looks like a cat must be a fox. Also the brush (that's what a fox's tail is called) is so bushy, even in the photos presented, that you couldn't tell if it were being held in the "exact" same way as the skinny curved tail of the animal in question. The other problem with google image search, is the fact that most of the photos pictured, are of captive animals, not engaged in wild behavior as in the photos in question, or they are grainy gamecam photos which provide little clarity, as we already have five grainy gamecam photos of the exact animal in question, and we still can't agree on what it is...
And what about those stripes?...
On the tail?...
The most distinct part of the animal in question.

 

[greenkalki]

And just to mess with everyones head...
Check out this animal photographed in South Carolina, just next door to the OP:

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=14603