What makes a coop "Fort Knox" predator proof?

[zndzant]

Hi everyone!

Reading here, I see we all have predator issues, which vary greatly depending on where we live. I'm in Southeast MI(60 miles N of Detroit) in a rural area. Our main predators are fox, coyote, hawks, owls, opossum, and skunks, and the ever popular raccoon. Snakes are generally not an issue, although we do have garter snakes(those are the only ones I've ever seen.)

This is my first year having chickens and I have built my coop as close to predator proof as I believe it can be, and was wondering what everyone else considers to be "Fort Knox" safe.

I covered the eaves with 1/4" hardware cloth attached with screws and fender washers.
The windows and one pop door(that isn't used) are also covered on the inside in the same manner.
The coop is 4x8, 2 1/2' off the ground, so it would be hard for anything to get in from underneath the coop.
The run surrounds 3 sides of the coop, total dimensions are 16'x16' with 4' of one end comprised of the coop itself. This is completely covered in 1/2" hardware cloth again attached with screws and fender washers.
The top of the run is 2x4's attached to the coop and top edge of the run walls with joist hangers screwed in, and completely covered in 1/2" hardware cloth as well.
There are no openings in the hardware cloth larger than 1/2" anywhere.
Not done yet , but to be finished before the weather gets cold is a 2' skirt of 1/2" hardware cloth attached along the bottom 2x4 of the run walls again with screws and fender washers to prevent diggers from getting in.
So far, so good.

My weak points, that I can see are the window sash locks on the back doors. IF anything got in they could easily undo them. My plan to remedy this is to attach something to the door handles that will prevent them from opening even if the sash locks are undone. Like a chain through them with a lock or something
There is space around the gate to the run, that the hardware cloth extends over an opening greater than 1/2" to allow the door to swing in all weather. This is mainly along the latch side. My plan to counter this is to screw a 3-4" strip of plywood the length of the sash side, on the outside that will act as a "stop" and also cover the gap. Sorry I don't have a picture of the gate.

Here are a few pics to illustrate.

Now, please share what you have done to build "Fort Knox" and also suggest what you would do differently if you were me( or other posters as the case may be.) Maybe we can all get some tips and tricks that will help us keep our cheeps safe.

 

[Folly's place]

Very nice! I added1"x4" boards, screwed in to the framing, over the top of the hardware cloth, and 2"x4" woven wire over the bottom four ft. for more security. Mary

 

[cavemanrich]

You did an EXCELLENT JOB. There is no such thing as totally predator proof, but you come very close. The predators you list should be well deterred. If you did encounter bears, well, they can overcome most things short of Alcatras. The other lil devils are the weasels martins, and mink type predators. Hope you don't have those in your area. About the only thing I would add would be a Hot Wire Electric fence. Wait and see if you need one. The most important is to look up your chickens for the night. That is when most predator attacks occur.
WISHING YOU BEST

 

[Blooie]

I echo everyone else in the "great job" comments! You certainly did it right the first time!

But as @cavemanrich said, predator proofing is just part of the story. Speaking from a personal standpoint, I refuse to think there is such a thing as a 100% predator proof setup. I have said this in other threads as well. Nothing - no hardware cloth, skirts, aprons, concrete, or latch - can be relied on to provide all the protection needed. If I were to put all my faith in the mechanics of predator proofing, it would be far too easy to become complacent. Nothing adds more to predator protection than diligence. Watch for little gaps that might appear as the coop/run settle a bit. Walk the perimeter regularly and look for little signs that something has been interested in getting to your birds and reinforce that spot if necessary. Repair (or replace) any little areas that are showing age or damage. And listen to your chickens. If you hear a commotion out there that is totally unexpected, get out there and investigate immediately.

If you wonder about the apron you put into place rather than digging down several feet and putting wire down, I can tell you that even a skirt and apron work well. When we built our run, we ran hardware cloth up the sides about 2 feet, then folded it out at the bottom as an apron for another two feet or so. Our ground is just too hard and rock filled to try digging, and Ken and I are older folks. Both of us have some degree of disability. I worried...was it enough? When our girls went out there for the first time, our English Setter Molly got way too overexcited at seeing them flapping around in there. She paced the length of that run like her tail was on fire. She tried jumping up on it, but the cattle panels (reinforced with chicken wire to deter birds and squirrels and the hardware cloth skirt over that) were solid and when that didn't work she got the bright idea to try to dig under it. Um, that was a mistake! She broke and bloodied a toenail. She yelped and limped away from that run, looking over her shoulder and shooting the chickens dirty looks like they were responsible for her injury. And she never, ever bothered those chickens again, not even when they were free ranging. She decided they hurt her, and she gave them all the space they wanted just to avoid another owie.


The hardware cloth skirt going up the sides of the run and apron running outward. We found a few wrought iron corner shelves at a flea market and used them to stiffen every corner of the run. The hardware cloth skirt is literally sewn into the side of the run with wire and we used landscape fabric staples to secure the apron to the ground. We planned to cover the apron with flat rock, but the grass grew up quickly right through it so we left it as is. Ken can mow right up to the edge of the run, and no tall grass or rocks mean no place for littler, annoying pests like mice and snakes, to hide.


Molly the first day the chickens were in the run.....just before she tried digging underneath.


Since she blamed the chickens for her mishap and never forgot the lesson learned, she became utterly reliable around them. Not that I recommend this method of training any dog to be around chickens - it just happened to work out in our case. Here she is laying down in the run, waiting for me to finish chores. Notice the chicks behind her...the enclosure she's laying against is the brooder pen within the run that we use to raise chicks outside.


Bookends. She didn't bother the chickens and they didn't bother her...except to occasionally give a tug on that tempting tail hair...


The run and coop...notice that we also ran hardware cloth up the sides of the coop and secured it with large washers and screws and extended it out at the bottom as well. That covered box-like thingy in front of the run is the little tunnel they use to get from coop to run....so the pop door is totally encased within a solid structure. There is hardware cloth under it and extending out, and hardware cloth sewn into the wire on the run above it, just in case any critters have the bright idea to jump on it and get in that way. Windows are also covered in hardware cloth, using screws and washers.


The lattice serves no purpose except to keep the run from being an eyesore, since we live on a corner lot in town.


They say build it like Fort Knox. I say that even Fort Knox has extra security and guards to back up the protection built into it. From what I can see, you're off to a great start!

 

[FlyWheel]

10" deep concrete slab floor, steel reinforced cinder block walls and a metal roof.That should keep them safe from just about everything.

 

[zndzant]

@zndzant I have the daisy coop also but I paid to have it built. Fortunately money isn't an issue for buying the hardware cloth. Just procrastination. But I know if something happens I will be devastated.

I like that yours only has one nesting box. We have both sides with the boxes and they NEVER lay in one side.

I agree on the insulation. We will put some on the floor and cover it with more flooring and the bedding that we use.

What do you use for roosting poles? We use a wide dowel but thinking of changing to 2×2 board.

My roosting poles are 2x4's with the wide side up. The roosting boards are the same as the plan except that I made them about 3" wider because I was afraid that they would miss the board at width they were designed. I will say that this makes them quite a bit heavier to take in and out so I've filled them with sweet pdz and just scoop it daily like a cat litter box.

Amazing job! My husband worked in a maximum security prison for years, so he was my go to. We buried the wire cloth about a 1' 1/2 deep. We poured concrete for the inner coops. Security is certainly a concern! We live in the middle of the woods in Idaho. You have to try and think like a varmint! You've pretty well nailed it! Best of luck to you!

Thank you! I had originally planned to bury the wire as well, but it was just me and my parents, who are both in their late 70's, who built this and we all just ran out of steam! Weve been working on this since the beginning of May! So the skirting of wire will have to suffice.
I would imagine living where you do that you get the occasional bear or big cat? I wouldn't even know how to begin fortifying for those types of predators. But I bet it sure is beautiful out there.

 

[Howard E]

Fort Knox? I think you are close to it. If everyone did that well BYC's predator forum wouldn't see much traffic. A good thing. (well maybe not for BYC, but it would be for growers and their birds)

So what else to do? With little shade, you can expect your birds to hang out under the coop 90% of the time. That will become a mud hole in short order, if not already. We have a neighbor near us who must keep 20 or 30 birds in a house not much larger than yours.......large fenced yard, but no shade. In the middle of the day ALL of those birds can be seen camped under his elevated coop. They sit there in a huddle, looking out.

So maybe consider concrete pavers under there to keep the birds and such off the muddy ground, as well as thwart rats from living under that area in tunnels (assuming rats might be an issue in your area.....).

Next issue for you will be to decide what to cover your run floor with. As runs go, yours is pretty large, but the birds will still strip it of anything green in short order. So be thinking about what you want to put down to get them up off the ground, and what to cover it with to prevent a muddy smelling mess. This also has implications if you do put down something like deep litter. You may want to consider installing some type of band boards around the perimeter to keep it in. That might be 5/4 treated deck boards on edge. But you can put that on after the apron goes on so as to cap it.

But all things considered, you did a good job and are off to a great start!

 

[zndzant]

You did an EXCELLENT JOB.   There is no such thing as totally predator proof, but you come very close.  The predators you list should be well deterred.  If you did encounter bears, well, they can overcome most things short of Alcatras.   The other lil devils are the weasels martins, and mink type predators.  Hope you don't have those in your area.  About the only thing I would add would be a Hot Wire Electric fence.  Wait and see if you need one.  The most important is to look up your chickens for the night.  That is when most predator attacks occur. 
WISHING YOU BEST  

Thank you. We do have the occasional weasel/mink here. Neighbor across the road lost some cheeps last winter when one got in her coop. I do lock mine up at night, but leave the covered/unused pop door, and the windows open all night during summer. What can be done to keep weasels out?

Your set up looks great. I have what looks to be the same coop. I feel like I've been tempting fate with only having chicken wire on the run. Time to cover it in hardware cloth.

Did you insulate your coop? I'm in central NY state. How cold are your winters?

I built it from a plan I bought online. It's called The Daisy Coop. So far I like it, but there are a couple things I would already change if I could. Lol I did not insulate the coop. Everything I've read says they don't need it. Just keep them dry and draft free. That said,I do plan to put up Styrofoam insulation under the floor of the coop and the nest box and cover it with plywood just to give some added protection to the floor. We have occasional days below zero but usually not for more than 24 hours. High teens to low 30's normally.

Yeah, I would say you're tempting fate with just chicken wire,that's one thing I learned from reading here on BYC when I was still in the planning stage,but it's expensive. I have more $ into hardware cloth than a lot of people have in their entire coop! But if you can afford it, definitely replace with hardware cloth. Even if it's just a roll at a time.

Fort Knox? I think you are close to it. If everyone did that well BYC's predator forum wouldn't see much traffic. A good thing. (well maybe not for BYC, but it would be for growers and their birds)

So what else to do? With little shade, you can expect your birds to hang out under the coop 90% of the time. That will become a mud hole in short order, if not already. We have a neighbor near us who must keep 20 or 30 birds in a house not much larger than yours.......large fenced yard, but no shade. In the middle of the day ALL of those birds can be seen camped under his elevated coop. They sit there in a huddle, looking out.

So maybe consider concrete pavers under there to keep the birds and such off the muddy ground, as well as thwart rats from living under that area in tunnels (assuming rats might be an issue in your area.....).

Next issue for you will be to decide what to cover your run floor with. As runs go, yours is pretty large, but the birds will still strip it of anything green in short order. So be thinking about what you want to put down to get them up off the ground, and what to cover it with to prevent a muddy smelling mess. This also has implications if you do put down something like deep litter. You may want to consider installing some type of band boards around the perimeter to keep it in. That might be 5/4 treated deck boards on edge. But you can put that on after the apron goes on so as to cap it.

But all things considered, you did a good job and are off to a great start!

Thank you! I have 8 pullets and a cockerel. They haven't totally reduced the run to mud yet, but is is starting to smell when it rains. We have 5 old maple trees in our front yard that shed tons of leaves in the fall,as well as several pine trees. I was thinking that instead of running over them with the lawn mower mulcher and scattering them, I would start putting them in the run. I hadn't yet worked out how to keep them in there! I like the idea of boards around the bottom. That's probably what I'll do.

 

[TerryH]

Predator proofing should be at the top of any chicken keepers list. We were determined to keep our flock safe both in coop and run. The coop is of normal house type construction. 2x4 walls with studs 16" on center, Plywood siding, 3/4" t and g flooring and a corrugated metal roof. All windows in the coop are covered with 1/2" hardware cloth interior doors. The coop also has a hardware cloth screen door for added ventilation. Permanent ventilation is also covered with 1/2" hardware cloth. The run has 4x4's in concrete with 2x6 and 2x4 framing. Double layer wire using 1/2" hardware cloth on the lower 4' and regular chicken wire on the upper portion and all of that is covered with 2x4 welded wire. There are anti digging wire aprons all around. The entire run is covered with corrugated metal roofing. Nothing is 100% but we feel pretty confident in our setup.





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[cavemanrich]

I just LUV this picture....