What the heck- having a rash of egg binding here- why?!

[coldinnh]

My girls are on a mixed flock - game bird/turkey feed from Blue Seal/Kent group. Have been for well over a year almost exclusively. (DH will sometimes stop at TSC and pick up feed). Have free access to oyster shells , free range and get gleanings from the garden. After an animal attack that cost me half my flock - I noticed my Naked Necks had a cold- my Cochin Roo was already isolated with a SPeckled Sussex hen(she passed within a couple of days of attack) so in they came for a round of Sulfa & domething else the Vet ordered. Ok Cochin fine after a round and he's back out with the rest- no other signs of respiratory issues. But my 2 NN hens were iso'd well over three weeks ago and were starting to show signs if egg binding. One was standing and walking like a penguin. Notice fluid build up in abdomen and tried another round of antibiotics. In the mean time one of my Leghorns was showing posturing of egg binding. Squatting and ruffled- she came in about a week ago and was started on antibiotics for fluid build up in tummy. She was oozing clear liquid and no signs of an egg.
I took the one NN who was penguin walking to the Vet who for $200 told me it was a tumor and not egg binding... But I was massaging the external portion if their vents and FELT hard objects what seemed like eggs tips. She just in massaging and greasing up backsides the two passed rubbery multi layered masses (much like I found in a hen who was egg bound earlier in the year after she passed) no one has passed an egg - all three hens had been given a round of antibiotics and probiotics with calcium supplement. What am I doing to my hens- this makes 5, which I tthink is quite high for a small flock of 25 birds from McMurray. All hens lost to egg binding have been from my original order from McMurray that I got in May 2010. Not sure if it is a breed thing with Leghorns and RIR but then my Naked necks are afflicted. Any help? I only have 6 hens left.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote: What you are seeing is not really egg binding. The age and the fact that you have hatchery stock from one of the big production hatcheries tells me that they are starting to die from what may start as salpingitis infections/egg yolk peritonitis and end up with internal laying. All of those are sort of interrelated. I lost almost every original hatchery hen I had (from another big hatchery) to internal laying/egg yolk peritonitis. It's very common in hatchery hens, especially the breeds that are the most popular with feed store shipments like the Rocks, Wyandottes, Orpingtons, Reds, etc., but can be seen in other breeds of low quality genetics.

We've necropsied many of them, seen the terrible cheesy gunk clogging the oviducts (like what your hen passed) and in the abdomen as well. That is solidified infection and egg material combined. It's genetic/hormone based-no prevention, no cure. You have to start with better quality stock. My hens who are not direct hatchery girls do much better-I have 6 year old hens out of hatchery parents who are still laying and seem well other than arthritis. The further from the hatchery generation you get, the less you'll see that stuff. Been battling this stuff for years and there is truly no way to beat it other than get birds made of better genetic stuff.

All the calcium in the world will not fix internal laying. That is not the cause. There was a study that seemed to say that flax seed given regularly might help offset some of this, but mine did have that occasionally and it didn't seem to have an effect. Could be it should be given from a very young age, very regularly, but this being genetic/hormonal, not sure how much good it would do.

These threads may be helpful to you.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=362422

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=195347

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...lks-update-rip-beautiful-reba/50#post_8068877

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ences-on-egg-reproduction-production-necropsy

 

[speckledhen]

Free ranging has nothing to do with reproductive issues. Those are related to hormones and genetics.

I have had no Mareks or Mareks-like symptoms here, ever, and I have free ranged in my mountain woods ever since my first chicks were about 12 weeks old, years ago.

When those issues began when my first hens were 2 years old, I began consulting very knowledgeable folks, including a PhD in poultry science. After years of losses to the same thing in my hatchery stock, the consensus was that I must get my stock elsewhere from better genetic lines. And that has been the key for me.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

It can be a line of birds but IMHO it is almost always nutrition.
There has to be a balance of phosphorous and calcium. Chicken nutrition is tricky.
I think your game bird feed is not enough calcium. Check the label. If it doesn't contain 4% calcium that is probably the problem. Sufficient calcium is important to prevent egg binding.

 

[coldinnh]

They have free access to oyster shell and the feed is for all birds - for the small farmer with many different kinds of birds.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I understand that and when necessary to house growers and adults together I usually use a feed like that but for the long term I'm not convinced that they'll bother to take enough oyster. Normally I wouldn't think much of it but you posted about losing birds to egg binding and this is what I know about it.
To help clarify my point I refer you to this vet post
http://mikethechickenvet.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/bones-shells-and-hen-health/

The point is, whatever the flocks other needs are, hen chickens in production need a ration with 4% protein for optimum health.

I wanted to add a little about vets. There are very few who are good avian vets. Of those that are, much fewer know poultry. Most of those have poultry of their own and their knowledge may be borderline anecdotal.
There are only a handful of poultry related vet schools left in the country.
Where I live there are 3 or 4 avian vets. 2 claim to know poultry and only 1 IMO really does.
I've only taken one bird to a vet for egg binding. I was able to get the bird to release an egg but she bound up again. Took her to the vet, he gave her an anti-inflamatory and said she would be OK. She died the next morning. My doctor friend, when I told him what happened, couldn't understand why an anti-inflamatory would have worked.
I don't know either but she died.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

I would be interested in knowing his sources as he unfortunately doesn't list any. I have also read studies that say the exact opposite. Lots of folks choose not to use a layer and have for years have excellent results, including myself.

Is it possible they have an sort of stress factor that is recent? Stress can cause shell less eggs and sometimes binding.

 

[coldinnh]

Stress?? Yes I had half the flock either torn to pieces or chased down in one day. That was when I noted my Cochin and SS were in respiratory ill so they were brought in with to be with the one turkey who lasted past the night of the massacre. I also have had some rodent additions to their coop area. Not invited guest. The feed was suppose to be the same as the Egg producer/egg maker that I had been feeding. The turkey Hen is laying and I noted when J had my other 2 turkey hens that on a layer they would have soft shells .

 

[coldinnh]

I will double check their calc. intake. I went to the local bird store and got liquid calcium that is usually given to cage birds without success.
Can my girls be saves if they are impacted in they oviduct work?

 

[ChickensRDinos]

Sorry. I totalled missed the line in your original post about the attack. Sorry for your loss.