What to do for an oil gland that isn't working well

[Miss Lydia]

The neck feathers will always stay water proof with a lot of geese.
I've a feeling that babe doesn't like cleaning himself when he's dry

We always have those geese and it seems that the majority of geese that don't keep themselves clean are ganders.
Just to let you know another thing which could be the problem is that the oil only does its job when the goose is dry, when they are wet it doesn't work so wait till you have a week of dry weather so the feathers can relax and let babe clean himself up a bit and let him do his neck squirming and head spinning on the tail area to get the oil when he's dry so he will be more waterproof

Also a goose with broken feathers or has ruffled old feathers won't be waterproof and those areas on the goose will always be wet and not waterproof.

Well starting tomorrow we are to have some dry cooler air so maybe he'll dry out and get to work on his water proofing. You know I haven't seen him doing the head squirming head spinning stuff he actually looks like he is trying to wring out his feathers when they are so wet He pulls them through his bill. We'll see how he looks in a few days and I'll keep watch to see if he is working on his feathers.

 

[servpolice]

Keep us updated as usual

 

[Miss Lydia]

Keep us updated as usual

I will.

 

[Miss Lydia]

@rainplace Thank you so much for all the info. and let me also say How good it is to see a face that I haven't seen for a long time.. I hope you stay around BYC now.

Yesterday we had rain and Babe who is 1.5 yrs old was wet and the others rain was running off of them. So I will try the Brewers yeast and the greens they are getting are store bought romaine and kale so I'll begin giving more and hope he gets over this.


Thanks again for taking the time to post.

 

[Miss Lydia]

@Miss Lydia
I do hope Babe gets better!

You and I joined about the same time. It's nice to see you still around, you've always been someone I've enjoyed reading. I really liked my time here at BYC, but I found it consumed too much of time. I came back to request some help/ideas from Amiga (she was awesome as usual), then combed through all the posts I had ever started (time sink!), and then got sucked into some recent posts. Mostly I'm procrastinating writing a resume, but as soon as that's done, I'll most likely drift away again as life sweeps me away into its busyness.

I plugged in my old laptop and found this in my bookmarks:
http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?t=5885&highlight=
Second post down reads:

"Wet Feather is an occasional problem. http://www.callducks.net/duckswetf.htm# (Link no longer works) Preening Ducks and geese need to keep their feathers in top condition to protect themselves against water-logging whilst swimming, and in wet weather. They normally do this by bathing to remove dirt from the feathers, and by combing the feathers through the bill. This maintenance of feathers is called preening. It includes the removal of parasites, the removal of scales which cover newly sprouting feathers, and also the spreading of oil over clean feathers. It also includes the combing of the barbs on the feather so that the barbules and even smaller hooks called barbicelli interlock and form a protective layer to repel water..

The oil is obtained from the preen gland on the rump. This is an oily spot which can be found by searching near the drakes curled feathers. The bird uses this patch to roll and stroke its head over the oil. The head is then rubbed over the body feathers to spread the oil evenly. This keeps the feathers bright and supple, and allows water to run off in droplets as the proverbial "water off a ducks back."

Some people believe that the oil of the preen gland has little to do with 'waterproofing' feathers, the main function of the oil being to keep the feathers supple. Freethy, in his excellent book 'How Birds Work', explains that preen gland oil is not the only defense against water-logging; constant attention to zipping the barbicelli of the feathers together is also important. However, one only has to look at ducklings to see that preen gland oil does have some function in repelling water. Ducklings reared under a mother duck have a certain extent of natural water-proofing from contact with her feathers. The contact maintains a good down structure as well as spreading preen-gland oil on ducklings when they are only a few days old. Ducklings reared without a mother are not nearly so waterproof.

The debate about wet feather is not a new one. At some point, a review of earlier literature on the subject will be published by the CDA. What does wet-feather mean? When things go wrong, a bird looks distinctly damp instead of glossy. The feathers become water-logged and unable to repel water. The outer contour and even flight feathers are affected. In a severe case, even the under-down may start to become affected. The bird becomes cold and miserable, and avoids water which can then make the condition even worse.This condition known as wet-feather is more common in wet winters. It has affected birds which have been free of this problem in the past. This has worried their owners too, because there often seems little one can do to help. Whilst the weather and environmental conditions in wet winters have undoubtedly caused the problem for many, I thought it might be useful, particularly for new keepers, to review several conditions which can cause this feather deterioration.

When wet feather strikes, there are several possible causes. In some cases, birds will not respond to the treatment given. In such cases the bird may be ill from another long-standing problem, and cannot be cured. 1.Birds are kept with little water. They may look all right, but when they encounter wet conditions, the feathers immediately become water-logged and do not dry out easily. This may happen when a pair of birds are bought at a sale, and introduced to a place with plenty of water. This kind of wet-feather is usually temporary. In better conditions, the birds preen, oil up and re-condition their feathers in about a week.

2.The preen gland is not producing sufficient oil. This can be due to diet. Insufficient vitamins can definitely produce miserable birds. An example of this was when Call ducks were kept on a diet on hen-layers pellets only. They were mostly in poor, wet-feathered condition. The addition of 50% wheat to the diet helped the majority of the birds. Whole wheat provides vitamin E from the wheat germ. This is easily destroyed in milling. Whole wheat also contains vitamin B which waterfowl need. Supplements such as cod liver oil (on the food) and some maize in the feed in winter may also help alleviate the problem. Do try to feed pellets for waterfowl (not chickens) and make sure the food is in-date. Hen layers pellets are poor food for birds which are not laying, and also for breeder birds. Maintenance pellets plus wheat are best outside the breeding season. A breeders ration containing the right amount of calcium for ducks, plus extra vitamin E and B for strong embryos, should be used in the breeding season. If birds are on genuine free range, they will pick up their own animal protein and greens, and it will probably not matter what they are fed as a supplement to their main wild diet.

3. The feathers get muddy. Once they have absorbed soil particles, condition is rapidly lost, and the birds find it very difficult to oil up again, even if they have clean water. Mud on the feathers probably strips off the oily protection. Muds contain clay minerals. Some of these clays have been used in the past in fulling wool i.e. taking out excess oils. This may be what happens to the ducks. On the other hand, it could be the abrasive action of the mud which ruins the feather. Continuously wet conditions also exacerbate the problem. Affected birds simply cannot dry out, and cannot re-condition their feathers by preening. This is the commonest cause of wet-feather. A partial solution is to shelter the birds in excessively wet weather. They then have the opportunity to dry out. Allow then to swim on days when there is the possibility of them drying out - and keep the birds free of mud if possible. The growth of new feathers next season often cures the problem.

4. Feathers get dirty from moulds. Victoria Roberts, in her book "Diseases of Free Range Poultry," cites soiling by plant spores and sooty mould from osier willows, which will continue to grow on feathers, as a possible cause of wet-feather on wildfowl pools. The recommendation is to wash the affected bird in detergent, preferably a shampoo designed for animal use. Care must be taken in returning washed birds to the pool. They need protection from cold, wet conditions until they have oiled up their feathers again.

5. Over-preening is also thought to cause wet-feather. This can result from a bird carrying a high parasite load. Common parasites on ducks include northern mite (a reddish-coloured mite which lives on the bird and sucks blood) and shaft lice which live on the feathers. Both of these parasites cause irritation. Preening of the shaft lice can start to cause shredding of the feathers. The barbules fail to interlock, and water-proofing is lost. To help the bird, parasites must be removed with an insecticide. This can be in the form of a powder containing pyrethrum, or an aerosol. There are also organic powders such as Barrier, which contain essential oils which are good at zapping the parasites. These treatments are contact killers so the bird will need two treatments. Treatment 1 gets rid of the adult pests ; treatment 2 kills pests emerging from the eggs and maturing on day 7-8. Always use the spray or powder on a dry bird. Avoid spraying aerosol on the eyes. The propellant is an irritant. Ivomec is a systemic wormer and also kills external parasites. The product comes in different strengths and forms. It can be injected, or used as a pour-on lotion on the skin. Five drops of the pour-on (for cattle) are recommended to treat a hen, so this should be scaled down to 1-2 drops for a Call duck. The product is now available (from a vet) in a small 10 ml dropper bottle, specially for birds. The 0.8 % solution recommends one drop for a pigeon so a Call would again need 1-2 drops. Ivomec seems to be more toxic for wildfowl and Toulouse geese than most domestic ducks. Always consult a vet, if in doubt about the product, to get the correct dose. Also, test only one bird first and watch its behaviour before doing the rest on the next day. At least two treatments, 8 days apart, are needed to remove all the parasites.

6.Some breeds and species are more liable to wet-feather than others. Toulouse and Pekin ducks tend to have softer feathers than other breeds and are more susceptible. It has also been noted that Baikal and Falcated Teal males suffer more than their females. The condition attacks the longer, softer wing feathers which are only repaired at the next moult. It is basically feather quality which determines if any bird is affected or not. In general Call ducks are pretty resistant to wet feather. Mine live out in all weathers gales and frosts alike and have never yet suffered from the condition. Clean water and a free-range diet do keep the condition away. If your pet Calls are kept in a grassy garden and vegetable patch, they should stay fit and water-proof because they are on a good mixed diet and can wash."

I found the mould thing interesting. I forgot about that. Do you have that sort of willow around your property? A google search says it's a "basket willow" (the type used for making baskets. When I tried hunting down the actual fungi responsible, I came up with Cladasporum herbarum. However that seems to be one of the most common in everything... dead wood, carpets, you name it. So I don't know what I think about the mould (or is that mold? my spellcheck keeps protesting). However every place I've encountered that talks about wet feather lists that willow as a possible source. It's driving me bonkers, mostly because I've not actually seen one person say definitively that an osier willow caused their waterfowl's wet feather. I wish they'd list their source!!!!

And this, Miss Lydia, is a huge reason of how BYC is so time consuming for me. I find everything so interesting! That's not even talking about the social aspects

Thank you so much for all this information. I do not have any type of willow here on my property Even though we live above a river. I will keep adding the Nutritional yeast to their feed and offer greens his preen glad is producing oil and it looks healthy and he does preen I have seen him, he bathed today all of them did. I guess it's just trying the B's and see if that will help. I can also get wheat at the feed store.I'm trying to feed non GMO feed though so not sure if the wheat is Non GMO . I'll have to look into it. Other than his feathers getting wet he looks and acts very healthy.
Thank you again @rainplace . for going to all of this trouble to get me this info.
I know When you have a full life it's hard to find time for everything, Being retired gives me more time than most. Still good to see you. Come visit again sometime.

 

[rainplace]

There isn't any GMO wheat in commerce in the US at this time. We're huge wheat producers out here and there was a scandal a couple of years ago where a test plot of GMO wheat might have escaped. So far it hasn't made it into production.

Not sure where in NC you are, but because I am still procrastinating this stupid resume, I caroused some NC craiglist and got one hit, and what a good hit, I am jealous at the pricing $6 a bushel (about 60lbs) I pay $25 per 100lbs. and drive an hour thirty to pick it up. https://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/5375901426.html

I am actually really glad I stepped into this thread because when I first got into waterfowl, I had read about keeping wheat in their waterers (that's very common in the UK), but couldn't find any. By the time I started mixing rations for my dairy goats, I had forgotten all about it. My fowl have mostly been free ranged, but I keep Flockraiser out in the winter and absolutely hate it. I actually have wheat grain out in my garage, and first thing tomorrow I will be putting it out!

 

[Miss Lydia]

There isn't any GMO wheat in commerce in the US at this time. We're huge wheat producers out here and there was a scandal a couple of years ago where a test plot of GMO wheat might have escaped. So far it hasn't made it into production.

Not sure where in NC you are, but because I am still procrastinating this stupid resume, I caroused some NC craiglist and got one hit, and what a good hit, I am jealous at the pricing $6 a bushel (about 60lbs) I pay $25 per 100lbs. and drive an hour thirty to pick it up. https://charlotte.craigslist.org/grd/5375901426.html

I am actually really glad I stepped into this thread because when I first got into waterfowl, I had read about keeping wheat in their waterers (that's very common in the UK), but couldn't find any. By the time I started mixing rations for my dairy goats, I had forgotten all about it. My fowl have mostly been free ranged, but I keep Flockraiser out in the winter and absolutely hate it. I actually have wheat grain out in my garage, and first thing tomorrow I will be putting it out!

Thank you so much for telling me about the wheat that is such good news. We're over in the mountains about 2.5hrs from Charlotte so I don't think I'll be traveling there but will look here I know the feed store where I buy the non GMO feed has wheat or they did last year so I'll check with them. Do you know if wheat is treated like other seeds are for planting or is their a specific type of wheat to buy that isn't for planting. This is new territory for me I know I can buy wheat in bulk at the grocery store but it's pretty expensive so would rather not get it there. No co ops around here either.

 

[servpolice]

@Miss Lydia

I do hope Babe gets better!

You and I joined about the same time.  It's nice to see you still around, you've always been someone I've enjoyed reading.  I really liked my time here at BYC, but I found it consumed too much of time.  I came back to request some help/ideas from Amiga (she was awesome as usual), then combed through all the posts I had ever started (time sink!), and then got sucked into some recent posts.  Mostly I'm procrastinating writing a resume, but as soon as that's done, I'll most likely drift away again as life sweeps me away into its busyness.

I plugged in my old laptop and found this in my bookmarks:
http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?t=5885&highlight=
Second post down reads:

"Wet Feather is an occasional problem. http://www.callducks.net/duckswetf.htm# (Link no longer works) Preening Ducks and geese need to keep their feathers in top condition to protect themselves against water-logging whilst swimming, and in wet weather. They normally do this by bathing to remove dirt from the feathers, and by combing the feathers through the bill. This maintenance of feathers is called preening. It includes the removal of parasites, the removal of scales which cover newly sprouting feathers, and also the spreading of oil over clean feathers. It also includes the combing of the barbs on the feather so that the barbules and even smaller hooks called barbicelli interlock and form a protective layer to repel water..

The oil is obtained from the preen gland on the rump. This is an oily spot which can be found by searching near the drakes curled feathers. The bird uses this patch to roll and stroke its head over the oil. The head is then rubbed over the body feathers to spread the oil evenly. This keeps the feathers bright and supple, and allows water to run off in droplets as the proverbial "water off a ducks back." 

Some people believe that the oil of the preen gland has little to do with 'waterproofing' feathers, the main function of the oil being to keep the feathers supple. Freethy, in his excellent book 'How Birds Work', explains that preen gland oil is not the only defense against water-logging; constant attention to zipping the barbicelli of the feathers together is also important. However, one only has to look at ducklings to see that preen gland oil does have some function in repelling water. Ducklings reared under a mother duck have a certain extent of natural water-proofing from contact with her feathers. The contact maintains a good down structure as well as spreading preen-gland oil on ducklings when they are only a few days old. Ducklings reared without a mother are not nearly so waterproof.

The debate about wet feather is not a new one. At some point, a review of earlier literature on the subject will be published by the CDA. What does wet-feather mean?  When things go wrong, a bird looks distinctly damp instead of glossy. The feathers become water-logged and unable to repel water. The outer contour and even flight feathers are affected. In a severe case, even the under-down may start to become affected. The bird becomes cold and miserable, and avoids water which can then make the condition even worse.This condition known as wet-feather is more common in wet winters. It has affected birds which have been free of this problem in the past. This has worried their owners too, because there often seems little one can do to help. Whilst the weather and environmental conditions in wet winters have undoubtedly caused the problem for many, I thought it might be useful, particularly for new keepers, to review several conditions which can cause this feather deterioration.

When wet feather strikes, there are several possible causes. In some cases, birds will not respond to the treatment given. In such cases the bird may be ill from another long-standing problem, and cannot be cured. 1.Birds are kept with little water. They may look all right, but when they encounter wet conditions, the feathers immediately become water-logged and do not dry out easily. This may happen when a pair of birds are bought at a sale, and introduced to a place with plenty of water. This kind of wet-feather is usually temporary. In better conditions, the birds preen, oil up and re-condition their feathers in about a week.

2.The preen gland is not producing sufficient oil. This can be due to diet. Insufficient vitamins can definitely produce miserable birds. An example of this was when Call ducks were kept on a diet on hen-layers pellets only. They were mostly in poor, wet-feathered condition. The addition of 50% wheat to the diet helped the majority of the birds. Whole wheat provides vitamin E from the wheat germ. This is easily destroyed in milling. Whole wheat also contains vitamin B which waterfowl need. Supplements such as cod liver oil (on the food) and some maize in the feed in winter may also help alleviate the problem. Do try to feed pellets for waterfowl (not chickens) and make sure the food is in-date.  Hen layers pellets are poor food for birds which are not laying, and also for breeder birds. Maintenance pellets plus wheat are best outside the breeding season. A breeders ration containing the right amount of calcium for ducks, plus extra vitamin E and B for strong embryos, should be used in the breeding season. If birds are on genuine free range, they will pick up their own animal protein and greens, and it will probably not matter what they are fed as a supplement to their main wild diet.

3. The feathers get muddy. Once they have absorbed soil particles, condition is rapidly lost, and the birds find it very difficult to oil up again, even if they have clean water. Mud on the feathers probably strips off the oily protection. Muds contain clay minerals. Some of these clays have been used in the past in fulling wool i.e. taking out excess oils. This may be what happens to the ducks. On the other hand, it could be the abrasive action of the mud which ruins the feather. Continuously wet conditions also exacerbate the problem. Affected birds simply cannot dry out, and cannot re-condition their feathers by preening. This is the commonest cause of wet-feather. A partial solution is to shelter the birds in excessively wet weather. They then have the opportunity to dry out. Allow then to swim on days when there is the possibility of them drying out - and keep the birds free of mud if possible. The growth of new feathers next season often cures the problem.

4. Feathers get dirty from moulds. Victoria Roberts, in her book "Diseases of Free Range Poultry," cites soiling by plant spores and sooty mould from osier willows, which will continue to grow on feathers, as a possible cause of wet-feather on wildfowl pools. The recommendation is to wash the affected bird in detergent, preferably a shampoo designed for animal use. Care must be taken in returning washed birds to the pool. They need protection from cold, wet conditions until they have oiled up their feathers again.

5. Over-preening is also thought to cause wet-feather. This can result from a bird carrying a high parasite load. Common parasites on ducks include northern mite (a reddish-coloured mite which lives on the bird and sucks blood) and shaft lice which live on the feathers. Both of these parasites cause irritation. Preening of the shaft lice can start to cause shredding of the feathers. The barbules fail to interlock, and water-proofing is lost. To help the bird, parasites must be removed with an insecticide.  This can be in the form of a powder containing pyrethrum, or an aerosol. There are also organic powders such as Barrier, which contain essential oils which are good at zapping the parasites. These treatments are contact killers so the bird will need two treatments. Treatment 1 gets rid of the adult pests ; treatment 2 kills pests emerging from the eggs and maturing on day 7-8. Always use the spray or powder on a dry bird. Avoid spraying aerosol on the eyes. The propellant is an irritant. Ivomec is a systemic wormer and also kills external parasites. The product comes in different strengths and forms. It can be injected, or used as a pour-on lotion on the skin. Five drops of the pour-on (for cattle) are recommended to treat a hen, so this should be scaled down to 1-2 drops for a Call duck. The product is now available (from a vet) in a small 10 ml dropper bottle, specially for birds. The 0.8 % solution recommends one drop for a pigeon so a Call would again need 1-2 drops. Ivomec seems to be more toxic for wildfowl and Toulouse geese than most domestic ducks. Always consult a vet, if in doubt about the product, to get the correct dose. Also, test only one bird first and watch its behaviour before doing the rest on the next day. At least two treatments, 8 days apart, are needed to remove all the parasites.

6.Some breeds and species are more liable to wet-feather than others. Toulouse and Pekin ducks tend to have softer feathers than other breeds and are more susceptible. It has also been noted that Baikal and Falcated Teal males suffer more than their females. The condition attacks the longer, softer wing feathers which are only repaired at the next moult. It is basically feather quality which determines if any bird is affected or not. In general Call ducks are pretty resistant to wet feather. Mine live out in all weathers gales and frosts alike and have never yet suffered from the condition. Clean water and a free-range diet do keep the condition away. If your pet Calls are kept in a grassy garden and vegetable patch, they should stay fit and water-proof because they are on a good mixed diet and can wash."

I found the mould thing interesting.  I forgot about that.  Do you have that sort of willow around your property?  A google search says it's a "basket willow"  (the type used for making baskets.  When I tried hunting down the actual fungi responsible, I came up with Cladasporum herbarum.  However that seems to be one of the most common in everything... dead wood, carpets, you name it.  So I don't know what I think about the mould (or is that mold?  my spellcheck keeps protesting).  However every place I've encountered that talks about wet feather lists that willow as a possible source.  It's driving me bonkers, mostly because I've not actually seen one person say definitively that an osier willow caused their waterfowl's wet feather.  I wish they'd list their source!!!!

And this, Miss Lydia, is a huge reason of how BYC is so time consuming for me.  I find everything so interesting!  That's not even talking about the social aspects

Thank you for this very handy and interesting information!
I'm curious about the the willow part too especially because I've over 9 willow varieties over here.... I know right 9!
I find it interesting when the babies born with the mother are more clean and stay more waterproof then the raised ones.
Thanks once again

 

[Miss Lydia]

@servpolice have you ever fed wheat to your geese?

 

[rainplace]

@servpolice
One place I visited called it "Sooty Mould Exposure," but when I used the search criteria "sooty mould exposure" + geese, the only hits were back to the website that gave me that name to begin with. When I removed the quotation marks and + sign, I got hits for fungi that infect citrus and olive trees... no willow there. Replacing mould with mold didn't yield me anything better.

Again, I don't know what I think about the "mould" thing. I keep running into writings of it, but could not find any sources or instances where waterfowl were infected with and treated for this problem. I spent about 45 minutes yesterday trying to run something down. If you find something, or if due to all your willows, your geese succumb to this "willow mould" please pm me as I would be interested in putting that into my files!

Doh, maybe I should have searched for ducks, and Victoria Roberts, and plant spores... if I have time later I might do so.

@Miss Lydia
Regarding wheat. I don't know how much help I can be. The wheat I buy is grown semi-locally. I talked to the farmer and know that he sprays a pre-emergent herbicide at planting, and then does nothing else. I have the name of the herbicide somewhere, but when I researched it, I wasn't too concerned. I do try my best to buy organic products, but can't always afford to do so. Occasionally I am able to pick up some organic wheat from the local organic distillery, but I knew the owners already from taking away a lot of their spent grains (mash) to supplement pigs and lambs.

Wheat seed can be treated with anti-fungals, but I do not know if they have to be labeled. Your state's wheat growing happens mostly in the coastal regions and are harvested June-July. It looks like there are a lot of organic wheat producers out there. You may want to reach out to them at some point and see if you can get any or if they sell to any smaller farms who resell it for forage systems. Summer through early fall may also be a time to look at your local craigslist to see if anyone is selling it.

Another source of wheat are breweries who make wheat beer. Not only do they have spent grains, but if they are already set up to get those spent grains to farmers, they may be willing to sell some of the fresh grain to them also - often at cost.

And I'm sure you already know this, but I'm putting this in for anyone who may come across this thread at a later date: Wheat should not be the only food stuffs available to waterfowl especially geese.