What Values Do You Place On Your Birds: Dog Attacks

[Lofty Dreams]

What values do you place on your birds?​

Long story short, I have neighbors who have two dogs,both of which have killed one of my hens on separate incidents. They also have a relative temporarily staying with them who owns Dog 3, who has killed one of my breeders, one which I have no replacements for. In the past she has killed some of the neighbor's chickens as well. I am unsure of what to price my Salmon Faverolle Faverolle Pullet as she was one of the four pullets I was going to keep. As my family and I like our neighbors, they are really nice and we frequently have s'mores together as a neighbor hood, I am unsure of what actions to take. But, I have decided that if I continue to lose my birds to their pets, I will involve law enforcement.

I am just wondering what (monetary) values are placed on people's chickens and flocks? And what would be a fair price to ask for this pullet?

I based my letter off of this article here, https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/dog-laws-useful-information-for-all-poultry-owners .

August __, 2015
​

Re: Dog 3: Faverolle Pullet Breeder Death
Dear _________ Household:

My flock has been attacked by an animal under your household; this is now the third time that this issue has occurred and I would like to halt the issue of your dogs escaping and attacking my birds.

The pullet that was attacked was a Salmon Faverolle bantam. Salmon Faverolles are a rare breed; I have only found three show quality breeders in Minnesota. As a full grown hen she would have weighed under two pounds, and would have been one of my breeders or show birds later this year and next year.

Dog 3, one of the dogs in your household, left your property, entered mine, attacked and killed one of my birds. After waking up at about 8:40 a.m. and looking out the window a few minutes later I noticed a large number of White Plymouth Rocks in the corner closest to my family’s house and the woods, as they would typically not stand together and in that area; I stood there puzzled for a few more moments only to spot a grey and white husky a few moments later chasing my birds back and forth on the outside of the fence. I bolted out in my sandals and chased her back to your property. After chasing her through the horse pasture, Dog 3 stooped by your back door, I slowed down and was able to grab her color, after wondering if was just supposed to put her in your pen. I heard Person B calling for Dog 3. After both the dog and I were inside, I released her color from my grasp. After letting her Collette know that I had found Dog 3 on my property, I headed out and trotted home as Person B said, she had a dentist appointment.

Upon arriving at home, I discovered the still warm, fresh body of my fence-jumping pullet between the horse trailers. She was within 10 feet of her fenced in yard, well within the borders of our property by 300 feet or more. Looking at her I noticed that there must have been so much pressure put on her that that her organs had started to emerge out of her orifices. I presume that she had been killed between 8:25 and 8:35 (her limbs were all moveable). After scoping up her body, I took a picture of where I had found her body and went in search of the others. I was able to find two of the remaining three faverolles. Not finding my third, I had sped back to your yard were the dogs had brought the other two chickens on previous raids. Previously one hen was still alive yet after being taken so I was hopeful. Quickly darting around your property, I was unable to find her, hoping she was just hiding I went inside and put the pullets body in the fridge by 9:33. The third faverolle hen showed up between four and five hours later. She was under the porch hiding.
The bellow numbers are costs that are associated with this bird.

• My mother and I drove over 162 miles from Harris to Sleepy Eye to pick up nine chicks in her van which averages 20 miles per gallon and at a rough price of gas costing $2.70 cost $2.43 per chick
• Each Salmon Faverolle Chick alone cost $9
• The chicks required heat for the first six weeks of their life which cost $1.34 per chick.
• Food costs were approximately $6
• Not including the time I put into these birds.

As a breeder she was once one of four pullets I would have selected and hung onto to produce chicks next year. She was one of the larger-bearded pullets and was laying as well as being a nicer shade then her eldest sister. I do not have a replacement for her. Because I am a certified hatchery I cannot bring birds on my property so any “replacement” would have to come in as a chick or an egg and then would have to pass the standards to be a suitable replacement.
The sudden loss of her complicates my breeding program. For this winter I planned to have two trios to breed out of to establish mini-bloodlines. The attack leaves me having to reevaluate my breeding plans. I can’t keep the one remaining hen with the rooster full time or she would be over used by him. Multiple hens spread out the roosters “affection”. Now this leaves me having to juggle multiple pens of birds, that I wouldn’t have had to before. This bird was not just one of those $25 chickens, I have already put $18.77 in her, not including my time, and she would be producing chicks for me next winter and spring each of which I could sell for $3-$5 dollars. Using my numbers for this year I would have made an amount between $95.625 and $130.294 from this pullet’s offspring alone for the 2016 breeding season. What would you say is a fair value on a breeding bird?

To prevent this from happening again, something needs to change; my birds have four feet tall fences and are easily three hundred feet away from your property line. My chickens hardly ever go to the part of the house where the windows facing the lake are. And with the exception of the turkeys which went onto your territory in 2014, none of my chickens have ever passed on to your property. If they ever would do so I would consider them to be fair game and my loss, but that is not the case.

With my aggressive roosters, I have a three strikes you’re out policy, dogs under your household have now cost the death of three hens; the first my best layer a to-be breeder, the second a former breeding hen (who was still alive when I found her) and this pullet is the final straw. If this continues law enforcement will be brought in.

As you have been nice neighbors, putting up with me and my birds, I am unsure of what actions I need to take in the future to protect my birds. Because of our family’s friendship I am not involving the law at this point. Just as my birds are my responsibility, your dogs and their actions are your responsibility. I hope the relationships you have with the other members of my family do not suffer, but I no longer wish to lose my production-pets which I have been using to raise money for college. If this does cause a rift, please do not judge my kin over this.

In closing I would appreciate an understanding of what steps will be taken to prevent this from ever happening again and I would appreciate receiving the fair value of this breeding bird.

Sincerely,
LDP

 

[Hholly]

I don't know values, but I would call the sheriff's department. They should be cited for not keeping their dogs on their property.

 

[Lofty Dreams]

I don't know values, but I would call the sheriff's department. They should be cited for not keeping their dogs on their property.

I am next time, I need to do some more research but, I believe an attack qualifies as a petty misdemeanor for the owner of the dog.

 

[trailrider330]

As far as the value of your birds, I can not say.

You may want to call law enforcement/animal control now and at least find out what your rights are and where your neighbor's responsibilities lie. I think we all know the answer, but it would be good to verify it with animal control in your area and find out what your options are at this time. They may also have some suggestions or words of advise for you about what "next steps" you should take.

Also, if you truly intend to send your neighbor a letter, I would suggest you cut out about half of what you have written. If they are not chicken people, they are not going to understand much of what you have written and you will lose them. I suggest just sticking to the facts, keep it very succinct, let them know your expectations, and what steps you will take if they do not comply.

Lastly, if your neighbor is not going to do their part, and you want to save yourself (and your birds) further grief, I suggest you predator proof your fences so nothing can get in or out. This will not only protect your birds from these dogs, but anything else that may want to make a meal out of them (coyote, fox, bobcat, hawks, other stray dogs, racoons, opossum, weasels, etc.), or at least consider doing so for those birds that you find "irreplaceable".

Good luck getting things ironed out with your neighbor.

 

[keesmom]

In general the value of a bird does not include the inflated costs of rare breeds, nor does it consider electric and feed costs to raise them, the fuel cost to get them, or lost revenue. From my experience $20-30 is more than a fair price (if you can even get that).

I definitely agree it is your neighbor's responsibility to contain their dogs. However if you have birds you consider irreplaceable then you need to reinforce your coops and runs. Time to consider electric fencing and netting over the runs. While not ideal your birds would benefit from being confined. I have LF Faverolles and they are confined to their coops and covered runs. Otherwise hawks, fox, raccooons, opossums, mink, weasels, fishers, coyotes or loose dogs would wipe them out.

FYI, it's FaverolleS, with an S on the end.

 

[Kelfeathers]

Could you ask the breeder you got her from how much they would try to charge in the same situation? I have a problem with a loose hound running in my neighborhood too. I planned out my coop with a reinforced aviary secured to the coop to be totally safe. I don't even trust my own dogs to stay away from my chickens.

 

[TalkALittle]

You are entitled to replacement value of the bird. If she was a rare breed, 5 month old bird of show quality then you are entitled to however much it would cost to replace her with the same. Contact the breeder you got her from and ask what they would charge you for a bird of the same quality and age. Attach a copy of that with a short letter to your neighbor. If they don't pay, contact animal control or local law enforcement.

 

[123RedBeard]

Pictures of dog(s) on your property is good too ...

I also agree that "inquiring" what you should do in the future from the local law, if this should happen again ... Is good advise. Know up front what steps they require, before they will respond.

Contacting the breeder is also good advise, as that is an experienced person in these birds.

Get everything in writing.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Have you simply just talked to your neighbors about it? Over s'mores time is not a good moment rather right after the incident. You've had now three opportunities to talk to your neighbors about there lack of control over dogs. If you want something to change you need to talk face to face and get a true value of their opinion in the matter. Do they even know their dogs have killed some of your birds? Are they apologetic and asking you replacement value or just think it's worthless dumb chickens?

Law enforcement is when a third party is needed who upholds law when small matters like this can not be settled by the parties involved. I think the first step for you to talk to them not wait for three birds to die and now want to call the law if a fourth dies. Letters are informal even if formally written and I personally find them offensive when a quick face to face chat would get to the bottom of things. No more brooding over things or wondering what their thoughts are.

Of course I'm a person of action and wouldn't even be very nice in a conflict of that nature- after first dog attack would have said "leash your dog or the next time they are on my property they will be buried on it." But you may want to use tact. If they fail to leash dog then call enforcement.

 

[aart]

Have you simply just talked to your neighbors about it? Over s'mores time is not a good moment rather right after the incident. You've had now three opportunities to talk to your neighbors about there lack of control over dogs. If you want something to change you need to talk face to face and get a true value of their opinion in the matter. Do they even know their dogs have killed some of your birds? Are they apologetic and asking you replacement value or just think it's worthless dumb chickens?

.....

Heck of a good question!!
I'd have addressed them face to face after first time, or definitely second time.
If you value your relationship with them, then you need to talk to them immediately.