When to cull?

[ChitownChick]

Hi there,

I'm relatively new to keeping chickens, and see them generally as pets. I don't raise for meat, and have decided to keep retired layers as pets through their natural lifespan. However, for the first time, I'm considering culling some of my hens, and would like some feedback.

Background: I now have 5 hens--3 old RIRs, and 2 young Isa Browns. Only two days ago, my 6th hen, a young barred rock, died very suddenly. A necropsy showed she died of a non-contagious infection. She probably could've survived it, but was underweight and malnourished so her immune system was compromised. I felt a wave of guilt, and realized that my other two young hens are underweight as well! I'm now doing my best to fatten them up.

This brings me to my conundrum. My 3 RIR hens are bullies. They are constantly attacking the young ones, preventing them from eating, and giving them sores on their combs. In addition, they now outnumber the younger, smaller ones 3 to 2. Another consideration is that the RIRs no longer lay eggs (not good ones, at least), although, as I said, that is not *the* deciding factor here. They are also HUGE, and eat a lot of feed as well as do a lot of damage in my free range garden--also not the deciding factor. But combine that with their bullying of my younger, more productive hens, and the recent death? I'm starting to change my mind.

When the size of my garden, 6 chickens is pretty much my cap. I'd like to replace my Barred Rock this spring, but know I can't get a solitary chick. I'd prefer to bring in 3 at a time. That would require that I cull some or all of my RIRs.

They have a large and spacious coop and run. They have their own garden just for foraging. I cannot think of how to further enrich their environment to stop the bullying, save for perhaps getting a good rooster, which my neighbors do not want.

Any thoughts on this? Knowing that I don't normally cull, what should I do? The 3 RIRs came together and are the dominant subflock, if I cull the meanest one would that be enough to shift the remaining two's attitudes? If I cull 2, would the remaining one be very lonely, even with the other 2 younger hens? If I do make the choice to cull, should I take them to a live poultry butcher or have a farmer friend do it at my home (he's not especially experienced with chicken slaughter & butcher, but has the stomach for it)? I guess I just feel a bit uneasy about the whole thing.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I scanned your post and suggest trying to cull the meanest as a first step.
They taste just like chicken.
RIRs are usually the bullies of a mixed flock.
Since the other RIRs aren't laying, it may be best to retire them all.
You and your friend should probably do the deed together and learn the process together. There are dozens of youtube videos showing the process.
With limited space, you want to have birds that will produce well for you and fit in with your personality and needs.

These breed charts should help you decide among the many amazing breeds.
http://www.albc-usa.org/documents/chickenbreedcomparison.pdf
http://www.sagehenfarmlodi.com/chooks/chooks.html

 

[lazy gardener]

It sounds like you are re-thinking your original plan of running a retirement home for your chickens. This is part of flock management. Every flock master needs to come to a decision that he/she can be comfortable with regarding "keeping a bird for her natural life", till she dies of "old age" vs. culling her when she is no longer a productive flock member. The benefit of removing older birds: Older birds are more prone to reproductive illness. Older birds can also be the "weak link" in flock health. It's often said that 10% of the birds in the flock carry 90% of the parasite and disease load. By removing those weak links, you are more apt to maintain a strong, healthy flock. Culling older birds allows increased room in coop/run to bring in younger birds. It also sounds like removing the ill tempered RIR biddies will decrease your flock stress.

Only you can make the decision which is best for you and your flock.

 

[lomine]

I think you’ve kind of already made up your mind but need a little reassurance. I think you genuinely wanted to keep your older hens “for life” but that isn’t going to work for you or your flock any more. There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing your mind. Your birds have probably lived a better life than a huge percentage out there and there’s no shame in giving them a good death and one final purpose (ie feeding you and your family). Besides, there’s no sense is keeping them around if they are causing so much stress.

As far as how many to cull, the only thing I would worry about is if you have a cold winter coming. A few extra bodies helps keep the coop warmer. If that’s the case I’d start with the biggest bully and see how that changes the dynamic of the flock.

 

[Mrs. K]

I have found, that old birds often get darn crabby. I think they are in a lot of pain and aches of old age. I think they all should be culled. There is a very strong chance that they are at or very close to the end of their life, chickens don't often live much past 3-4 years. And once that age, I have had them just be dead in the morning. So you could wait it out.

This is a personal decision. I keep a flock of birds, have for years. Birds come and go within the flock. You can stew them, or you can bury them under a rose bush. There more than likely is not a lot of meat on the old girls and it would probably be tough. I would cull all of them and get new chicks.

They have had a good life, and as one poster puts it, just one bad moment. Adding chicks keeps the flock active and healthy, and in eggs.

Mrs K

 

[Folly's place]

I keep some birds for a long time, some get rehomed, and some provide a nice dinner, either for us, or someone else. Cranky disruptive birds are the first to go! Flock health and well being is at stake here, and constant stress and obnoxious behavior are bad, for everyone. Don't feel guilty, as others have said, for doing what's necessary for you and your flock. Mary

 

[aart]

I too have limited space and need active layers to pay the feed bill,
so I hatch and cull every year.
Some cull birds get sold or given away,
most are slaughtered and eaten,
extra cockerels in spring, older hens in fall.
Slaughtering is not fun or easy,
but is delicious to eat and satisfying to take responsibility.
My chicken goals were to have first hand experience in 'truth of food',
and to have a 'self-sustaining' flock that paid for itself.

 

[Ridgerunner]

How old are those pullets? Are they laying yet? If so, for how long? To me that behavior sounds a lot like mature hens and immature pullets. Until my pullets start to lay they form a sub-flock and avoid the mature hens or they are likely to get pecked.

But I have a problem with this. You say you have a lot of room. Could you please give rough sizes in feet of coop, run, and garden? Normally if they have room the young just avoid the mature ones and life is good. I don't mean some mythical magical square feet per bird but do they really have enough room to avoid. From your description it sounds like they do.

Is there a specific time or place the attacks occur? Are they perhaps forced into close proximity? Are you feeding and watering in separate locations so the young don't have to challenge the older to eat and drink?

Are you aware that ISA Brown grown weight is about 2/3 of a RIR hen weight? They are much smaller. Are you taking this into consideration when saying they are underweight? ISA Browns are commercial egg-laying hybrids. They are meant to be fairly small so they have a great food to egg conversion ratio. They do not fatten up well.

My goals are different from yours and yes, those goals have changed a bit over time. That often happens when reality hits the road. But I raise mine mostly for meat, plus I play with genetics. The eggs are just a happy side benefit, I get so many I give them away to a food bank when my friends and relatives have all they want. I don’t keep individual chicken as pets, as someone else on the forum has said, the flock is the pet but it has ever-changing members. With me those hens would have been gone by now. They can be tough if not cooked correctly but they make terrific broth. By the time the broth is done the meat is fall-off-the-bone tender. I can give you my recipe if you wish.

As someone sort of mentioned above, to cull does not necessarily men to kill. You can give them away, maybe on Craigslist, but when you give them away you lose control. There is a fair chance they will be eaten. Or you could build separate facilities to house them separately. We all have our own methods of flock management.

Individual chicken behaviors and flock dynamics are unique, each chicken has its own personality and flock dynamics can change if one bird is added or removed. It’s very possible that removing an aggressive bird will stop that aggression. You imply you can identify the most aggressive hen.

How well any of this works will depend some on the maturity level of those pullets, but in line with your original goals, the first thing I’d try is to isolate the aggressive hen and see what happens. By isolate I mean lock her up totally away from the flock for a week or so. See how the others interact without her. By isolating her like that you might change her pecking order status enough that her behavior is totally changed when you put her back with the others. Or you might not.

Another attempt would be to put the mildest of the hens with the pullets and see how they get along. Give it a week and maybe add another of those adults. Play it by ear and see what happens.

If the pullets are not laying yet another approach would be to isolate the pullets until they have been laying for two or three weeks, then try to merge them. If maturity level is the issue this could solve your problem.

It’s very possible you have a brute and a bully, one that goes out of her way to disrupt the peace of your flock. I don’t allow those to stay in my flock, whether male or female. We all have our own goals and flock management techniques. You have to find what works for you. Good luck!