Who should get pinless peepers?

[Fishychick]

Hi. I will provide some background and then my main question. If you're short on time, skip the background.

Background:

I've had chickens for 19 years but took a break for a few year until I had the house and run renovated and enlarged. Two years ago, I bought a dozen "Fun and Funky" chicken eggs. Of those, three hens hatched, Perky first, then Daffy, then Billie with assist and one rooster, Angel, who I had to hatch by hand and then bath the dried yolk off of him. He has turned in to the most aggressive rooster towards me that I've ever had with three previous ones. A year ago, I let Perky hatch some eggs. Thinking I might get three or four chicks (all girls of course so I gave all but one girl's names), she blessed me with four roosters (Georgia, Iris, Dusty, and Hope) and two hens (Ariel and Dulcinea). Billie is the biological mother of Iris, Hope, Ariel, and Dulcinea at the least. Last fall when gang rape became the normal, I moved Georgia, Iris, and Dusty to the adjacent "quarantine" house and run which was never meant to be a full time place for chickens but it's working well enough. The area was too small for the other two roosters. A few months ago, Dulcinea, who was wearing a saddle like all but Perky, sustained a bad rip on her side that the roosters keep opening back up from all the raping going on so I brought her inside to a dog kennel for a month to heal and said enough was enough. Only because of the coronavirus, I had an extra three hours a day to do work at home since we're on shorter shifts. I separated the main run and put all the roosters in there. It was a blood bath. Angel, who was mean as hell, was now cowering in the corner, all the time, covered in blood, and getting soaked when it rained. I felt sorry for him despite how many times he's tried to kill me so I then build a separate area in the main chicken house and cut open a lower window. So, Angel and his son Hope live in their own run and part of the main house. They get along great and don't fight. Iris and Dusty attack Georgia when he comes off roost so I hand feed him. So, I have three sets of food and water bowls every day to tend to. So, now the five hens and I can live in peace, right since the roosters are in their own areas? Nope!

Current Situation:
Ariel is almost completely naked now. The roosters had removed all the flight feathers from Ariel, Dulcinea, and Daffy so they can't fly or roost. That's not what I'm talking about. Ariel has some down, and that's it! She's naked and cold in the rain. So, what's going on? I watched. Billie and Perky will give chase to Ariel and Dulcinea whenever they are near and bite hard. They're bullies. And, then I saw Dulcinea, my sweet girl, just sitting next to her sweet sister Ariel and eating her feathers! And, Ariel didn't care! I did some research and got the pinless peepers today. I've read they mostly work but also horror stories too. I brought Billie in and managed to get them on her without much trouble. Then, Perky, who I never put saddles on because she's hard to catch. She put up a fight, and her nostrils are bleeding. I'm afraid it will scab with the peepers stuck on forever! I plan to keep them on Billie and Perky a week. Will that be enough? Will they still be able to function? Some people say no. Should I put them on Dulcinea? I love Dulcie and don't want to hurt her but she's casually eating Ariel. Both Dulcie and Ariel don't get enough to eat because Billie and Perky chase them when they move. Maybe if they can eat more, then won't eat each other? I do throw fruits and veggies around the run in the morning but Billie and Perky chase Dulcie and Ariel whenver they try to eat. When Angel and Hope were with them, Dulcie and Ariel huddled under them to avoid being picked on. Perky raised them but turned on them at only about 6 weeks of age. What about Daffy? Miss ding dong is brooding nothing again. I remove her from the next twice a day and take out any eggs although they will soon be infertile (roosters have been separated three weeks ago tomorrow). Perky broods nothing at night only, pooping in the nest box. My hens are almost as much trouble as the roosters! How do I keep them from hurting each other? They have plenty of room but not much to do with all that free time that they used to spend being raped. Dulcie and Ariel can't fly due to lack of feathers so they can't go up to get away from Billie or Perky. While Billie and Perky are mostly fully feathered (roosters didn't "favor" them), they also never go up on the tons of roosts I have in there. Should I build some ramps? Ideas to save the hens from each other? I can't build a fourth area! This is getting ridiculous.

 

[azygous]

I must say, you have one hot mess. I really am stumped to tell you where to even begin. It's a management nightmare. But you know that.

Your flock is about as stressed as a flock can be. It likely all began from having too many roosters and not enough hens. That's where the management should have begun. Perhaps that would be the best place to start to mitigate this mess.

Try to deal with the roosters first. Decide on one to keep and either rehome or cull the rest. The hens need space and time to recover. You may need to rehabilitate the bullying victim. https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/chicken-bully-chicken-victim-a-two-sided-issue.73923/

Pinless peepers on the bully only addresses half of the problem. It would take more than a week for them to make any difference, and may not really solve the underlying problems.

I'd start with the roosters, and make some decisions.

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

my my my that sounds like utter chaos

 

[Wezdin]

The probable reason that feathers are getting eaten is because of not enough protein in the feed. This can be combated by either upping the protein in feed or feeding high-protein foods, such as a handful of cat foot or sunflower seeds every once in a while.

 

[Fishychick]

azygous, the roosters are in their own areas. They do not have access to the hens. When I asked for help last year, everybody said to kill the roosters as well (nobody wanted to adopt them) which I did not want to do. I know many of you raise them for meat but they are family to me. So, at considerably time and vast expense, I built them separate areas. Only one of the five roosters is currently being bullied which I consider a pretty good success! It's the hens with issues now.

Wezdin, they have high protein layer feed, and I also feed dried mealworms once a day. I think Duclie and Ariel are simply not getting enough food. Right now, Perky and Billie, in their peepers, are in the house, guarding the food. They were flicking their heads and looking up and down and now seem OK. Ariel and Dulcie who are mostly naked are standing out in the rain. Even with peepers on, Perky and Billie are able to keep Ariel and Dulcie out of the house. I used to feed them separately, up on a run roost but they can no longer fly to roost. The roosters are all in adjacent pens and not the reason that Ariel and Dulcie are currently suffering. In fact, my co-worker who considers herself an expert on chickens (she's not) says I need to put the rooster Angel back with the hens so he can mediate as he was doing. I'd be trading one problem for another. Last year, she told me to let my roosters free since nobody would adopt them, and I wouldn't murder them. Yeah, no. My boys are just fine now.

You would think I would learn by now that when I ask for help here, I'm told I should kill my roosters, or I don't know what I'm doing. Again, I will say that the roosters do not have access to the hens any longer. My hens are the problem to each other. I just wanted to know about the peepers since I've never used those. I await some guidance on those but won't get it, and then I'm on my own again. I'll figure it out like everything else. It's now pouring rain, and naked Dulcie and Ariel are soaked. I guess I'll have to buy more supplies and build them a separate shelter. It shouldn't be that hard to keep five hens in a large house and run (again, the roosters are NOT with them so STOP telling me to kill them). Years ago, I had 2 roosters and 3 hens together for years with few problems in half the space. Now, I can't get 5 hens to get along. I'm beginning to think my co-worker is smarter than me. Angel's return could fix one problem but create two more. I wish they made full body coats for chickens because Dulcie and Ariel could use them!

I know, you're going to keep attacking me (just like Angel), and the forum won't let me delete a thread. I know, you want me to murder my roosters. I refuse. That is why I have no human friends.

 

[RUNuts]

May I ask how large the hen area is? You say large, but don't give a square feet or dimensions.

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

azygous, the roosters are in their own areas. They do not have access to the hens. When I asked for help last year, everybody said to kill the roosters as well (nobody wanted to adopt them) which I did not want to do. I know many of you raise them for meat but they are family to me. So, at considerably time and vast expense, I built them separate areas. Only one of the five roosters is currently being bullied which I consider a pretty good success! It's the hens with issues now.

Wezdin, they have high protein layer feed, and I also feed dried mealworms once a day. I think Duclie and Ariel are simply not getting enough food. Right now, Perky and Billie, in their peepers, are in the house, guarding the food. They were flicking their heads and looking up and down and now seem OK. Ariel and Dulcie who are mostly naked are standing out in the rain. Even with peepers on, Perky and Billie are able to keep Ariel and Dulcie out of the house. I used to feed them separately, up on a run roost but they can no longer fly to roost. The roosters are all in adjacent pens and not the reason that Ariel and Dulcie are currently suffering. In fact, my co-worker who considers herself an expert on chickens (she's not) says I need to put the rooster Angel back with the hens so he can mediate as he was doing. I'd be trading one problem for another. Last year, she told me to let my roosters free since nobody would adopt them, and I wouldn't murder them. Yeah, no. My boys are just fine now.

You would think I would learn by now that when I ask for help here, I'm told I should kill my roosters, or I don't know what I'm doing. Again, I will say that the roosters do not have access to the hens any longer. My hens are the problem to each other. I just wanted to know about the peepers since I've never used those. I await some guidance on those but won't get it, and then I'm on my own again. I'll figure it out like everything else. It's now pouring rain, and naked Dulcie and Ariel are soaked. I guess I'll have to buy more supplies and build them a separate shelter. It shouldn't be that hard to keep five hens in a large house and run (again, the roosters are NOT with them so STOP telling me to kill them). Years ago, I had 2 roosters and 3 hens together for years with few problems in half the space. Now, I can't get 5 hens to get along. I'm beginning to think my co-worker is smarter than me. Angel's return could fix one problem but create two more. I wish they made full body coats for chickens because Dulcie and Ariel could use them!

I know, you're going to keep attacking me (just like Angel), and the forum won't let me delete a thread. I know, you want me to murder my roosters. I refuse. That is why I have no human friends.

I don’t know about everyone else but I don’t want you to cull them. I understand how it feels because I treat my flock like family too. I know people on here can be rough on softies like us sometimes but the best thing to do is step away and figure the problem out for yourself.
I believe you should never have to cull an animal because of its behaviour. Try googling some ways to train your roos to be nicer around humans and around other chickens.
I’m thinking there is a bigger reason behind the feather picking. Maybe one of the chickens is sick but they are just hiding it from you, like they do for some odd reason. A sick flock member can put a lot of stress on the other flock members, especially ones that are close to that chicken. Feather picking and bullying are sometimes signs of stress, especially if they are all doing it to some degree.
*i tried to do paragraphs but my phone wasn’t having it*

 

[Fishychick]

Sure I keep that data on my web pages so I can check for you. There were two houses and two runs. There are now two houses (one split) and three runs. The main house is 38.7 ft2 with about 1/3 of that now separated for two roosters who jump out a window to get to their new run. The small house for the three roosters is 27.2 ft2. Their small run is 56.2 ft2. The main run was 251.3 ft2 but I took about 60 ft2 for the two roosters so that means the five hens have about 25.8 ft2 inside the house and 191 ft2 in their run. That's about 5 ft2 inside and 38 ft2 outside per hen. "Experts" suggest 3 ft2 inside and 10 ft2 outside so I'm three times over that. There are roosts in all houses and runs from a foot off the ground to six feet up. The ceilings are 7 to 8 feet high as well. I think I'll have to build some ramps so the girls that can't currently fly can get up to some roosts. Hopefully, they'll all get their feathers back with the fall molt. I put a tarp over where Dulcie and Ariel are standing in the rain (so they, of course, moved) so they have a drier area in the run. I think the hens have enough room. I think their issues stem from 1. Perky has always been a bully. 2. With the boys moving to an adjacent area three weeks ago, their pecking order has been thrown for a loop. 3. Ariel and Dulcie are "bully acceptors" meaning they take it and run screaming. 4. There's not much for them to do aside from eat so they pester each other. The girls were always busy when the boys were with them. Not just what you're thinking but the roosters cluck the girls over for foods constantly. Now, the poor boys cluck but nobody comes. So, ideas on things to keep girls and boys occupied are welcome.

 

[Fishychick]

Thanks ihavesomechickens for the thoughts. I don't see any signs of illness from the hens. It's more like the older hens have always been after their daughters who just run away and don't stand their ground. They need their mojo. Dulcie and Ariel love each other and huddle together all the time. They were "gently" picking at each other probably because they're stressed not having the roosters there to protect them from the older hens who chase them if they move from their corner. Plus, they may be having trouble getting food. At the same time, the roosters were slicing them up with their "love making" so I couldn't have that anymore. And, all their wounds are currently completely healed. I had to nurse Dulcie in the basement for a month treating her wound. So, I do a lot more for my chickens than most!

 

[Ihavesomechickens]

Thanks ihavesomechickens for the thoughts. I don't see any signs of illness from the hens. It's more like the older hens have always been after their daughters who just run away and don't stand their ground. They need their mojo. Dulcie and Ariel love each other and huddle together all the time. They were "gently" picking at each other probably because they're stressed not having the roosters there to protect them from the older hens who chase them if they move from their corner. Plus, they may be having trouble getting food. At the same time, the roosters were slicing them up with their "love making" so I couldn't have that anymore. And, all their wounds are currently completely healed. I had to nurse Dulcie in the basement for a month treating her wound. So, I do a lot more for my chickens than most!

Maybe try getting some more hens?

Some more hens might help with the overmating problem, and it might be nice for Dulcie and Ariel to have some more friends. And those pesky old lady hens can’t attack too many hens at once I would assume.