Let's talk "relocation"

shortgrass · Jul 23, 2015

Whoooo... Touchy subject... Ive been reading and rereading, joined some lively conversations... And it has become clear to me that there is a huge discrepancy between what members believe is "legal", " humane", and "ethical"..

I would like to ATTEMPT to open a mature, adult, conversation about the legalities/hazards of relocation and/or " free release"... A discussion on how it affects native life, disease prevention, population control, etc.

Im walking a dangerous line lol, but things need to be set clear about relocation and the damage it can cause. This is not limited to predators; letting your pet iguana go free in the park would also be included here

Please have common courtesy; we all have opinions; this is not about "opinions" but facts as well.

Please share your views and applicable state laws, in link format if possible, si we can all be on the same boat and not let personal choices override what may be best for ALL involved...

Thanks, and lets see what we've got to contribute

shortgrass · Jul 23, 2015

For instance, in Colorado
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QYOB-c&usg=AFQjCNE59TxQC1zO3DUH3Rnpg7pm_xlvng

The only animal here allowable to relocate without a permit are squirrel, rabbit, and raccoon, as long as permission is obtained and its within 10 miles for the bunnies and squirrels, 2 miles for coons...(ok ibhad to laugh here, 2 miles for a coon? It'll be right back lol)

Need a permit to relocate anything else. They prefer you shoot or release on the spot.

Conibear traps are still on illegal, UNLESS you are a landowner protecting your livestock, then you can apply for a permit.

You can keep some toads and lizards lol.... Nothing else.

Bears and mountain lion can only be killed if they are threatening life or real property.

centrarchid · Jul 23, 2015

I would restrict use of relocation to only when population managers of the captured animals see need and sanction it.

shortgrass · Jul 23, 2015

centrarchid said:
I would restrict use of relocation to only when population managers of the captured animals see need and sanction it.

Excellent point; can you elaborate for those of us who might not understand who this entails, being state regulatory agencies and/ or landowners? Im not good with words lol, ....

I should highlight the part where it says "with permission"... Meaning if Joe blow from Pocono wants to put a coon on my Riverside, he needs permission from ME. I need to SEE the animal, and I have a right to say " nope".

Here in Co, we have a lot of good people in the wildlife service; they will always take problem animals... They dispatch them for you, or quarantine and relocate properly.

centrarchid · Jul 24, 2015

State / federal agencies with wildlife biologist. This impacts areas too large for individual land owners to have final say.

shortgrass · Jul 24, 2015

centrarchid said:
State / federal agencies with wildlife biologist. This impacts areas too large for individual land owners to have final say.

I'm sorry, what state were you discussing? I want to make sure inkeep track if differing state laws etc.

For instance, here in Colorado, the landowner has the final say. Of course, we also have the "make my day" law.

Pretty serious ranchers over here lol

There are exceptions if course. For instance, chronic wasting disease.

They opened up Estes Park to Elk hunting a few years ago, and the landowners fought it tooth and nail; they lived their "pet" Elk that moseyed around town, safe and sound. There were thousands. Beautiful creatures, lovely photo ops in the mountains.

They were diseased. Too many Elk, not enough food, no predators to keep them in check. The whole herd was wasting away, chronic wasting disease. Ph people were outraged that the state would even THINK of destroying an entire herd of Elk. So, they opened it up to hunters, wiped out 75% of thecherd, and today they are healthy and beautiful again, and wolves are allowed to contain excess numbers and the ecosystem has started to return to health.

Nobody wanted to have to kill 75,000 Elk, but it needed to be done for the benefit of the entire ecosystem.

That right there is why it's so important to lookk into other alternatives before relocating possibly sick or invasive animals.

dheltzel · Jul 24, 2015

Anyone wishing to relocate any organism (this applies equally to predators and "innoculous" things like minnows or wildflowers) should first become well versed in the ecology around the organisms and the target environment (where your are releasing them). If you become well informed about the dangers (to the organism you are "helping" as well as the rest of the environment) you will most likely decide it is a bad idea.

There are many, many examples of good intentions going very badly wrong (anyone want some starlings?), and I can't think offhand of any examples that went well. It is far more humane for all parties involved if you euthanize the animal.

I'm particularly sensitive to this problem because in a suburban area people tend to dump animals at my sister's farm, assuming they will live a "good life" there. We had 2 ducklings dropped off a few months ago and 2 days ago someone dumped a rooster. I don't want someone else's problem animals, and it's rude (criminal even) to drop off without permission. With wildlife, predators or not, I feel that way times 2! In both those cases, I would have helped if asked, and I am often asked to help dispose of unwanted poultry. I have connections and will do what is best for the animal, if the former owner will just work with me, rather than against me. Even if someone brought me a coon or fox, I would know what to do, but please, please, don't make it a problem for everyone by releasing it without permission.

I covered a lot of different scenarios here, some perhaps a bit off topic, but the "rule" is - think about the big picture, not just what is easiest for you.

I suppose that applies to a lot of things in life . . .

shortgrass · Jul 24, 2015

dheltzel said:
Anyone wishing to relocate any organism (this applies equally to predators and "innoculous" things like minnows or wildflowers) should first become well versed in the ecology around the organisms and the target environment (where your are releasing them). If you become well informed about the dangers (to the organism you are "helping" as well as the rest of the environment) you will most likely decide it is a bad idea.

There are many, many examples of good intentions going very badly wrong (anyone want some starlings?), and I can't think offhand of any examples that went well. It is far more humane for all parties involved if you euthanize the animal.

I'm particularly sensitive to this problem because in a suburban area people tend to dump animals at my sister's farm, assuming they will live a "good life" there. We had 2 ducklings dropped off a few months ago and 2 days ago someone dumped a rooster. I don't want someone else's problem animals, and it's rude (criminal even) to drop off without permission. With wildlife, predators or not, I feel that way times 2! In both those cases, I would have helped if asked, and I am often asked to help dispose of unwanted poultry. I have connections and will do what is best for the animal, if the former owner will just work with me, rather than against me. Even if someone brought me a coon or fox, I would know what to do, but please, please, don't make it a problem for everyone by releasing it without permission.

I covered a lot of different scenarios here, some perhaps a bit off topic, but the "rule" is - think about the big picture, not just what is easiest for you.

I suppose that applies to a lot of things in life . . .

Aw, ya'll are so much better at words than I am

Exactly...oh the starlings... Whoooo... Actually, a good point including the seeds, ANY organism.... I can think of some weeds that had help from gardeners and are now invasive....tamarisk or bindweed anyone?

dheltzel · Jul 24, 2015

shortgrass said:
Aw, ya'll are so much better at words than I am

Exactly...oh the starlings... Whoooo... Actually, a good point including the seeds, ANY organism.... I can think of some weeds that had help from gardeners and are now invasive....tamarisk or bindweed anyone?

Dandelion was intentionally brought to the US as an herb. Now it's main use is to sell millions of dollars worth of noxious herbicides.

Not in my backyard, but if I were in south Florida, I'd be a bit freaked out by the pythons and nile monitors that are now established there. Imagine adding them to your list of predators to be watchful of ?

centrarchid · Jul 24, 2015

shortgrass said:
I'm sorry, what state were you discussing? I want to make sure inkeep track if differing state laws etc.

By state I mean government that represents the majority of people in a given area and see to the long-term interests of the human population as a whole. No individual has the final say when relocation's can cause invasive or pest management issues for others. That I take serious and not a LOL matter.

Let's talk "relocation"

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