A flock with bumblefoot: Journey back to health

[deacons]

Ideally you want to get big enough to go around the black scab + a 1 mm margin (or larger if you can feel the kernel below). When I have used these on parrots that have been abused (improper perches causing foot issues) I've gotten a size or 2 larger than I think as well as a size or 2 smaller than I think. That way you know you have the right size somewhere in there. They aren't too expensive.

RN, can you explain how that punch works? I picture it being almost like an epi pen, where you have to use a bit of force to deploy the sharp part in the skin? With something as thin as a chicken's foot, how to you ensure you don't punch a hole straight through?

 

[deacons]

Hmmmm. You know, when I read your most recent post for some unknown reason I thought to myself "why neosporin as the 'pack' and then Vetericyn on the pad?". I'm almost thinking you're doing this in reverse order. After flushing with the Betadine maybe you should be using the Vetericyn as the 'pack' .... dunno, just thinkin'.

Yep, I'm game to try. No real reason except it seemed like the neosporin really filled up the hole in a way the vetericyn wouldn't. Although I accidentally bought the gel vetericyn last time, so that consistency might help.

Maybe I'll do an experiment- for left feet, I'll do neosporin in the hole, vetericyn on the pad; and the reverse on the right feet.

 

[iwiw60]

Yep, I'm game to try. No real reason except it seemed like the neosporin really filled up the hole in a way the vetericyn wouldn't. Although I accidentally bought the gel vetericyn last time, so that consistency might help.

Maybe I'll do an experiment- for left feet, I'll do neosporin in the hole, vetericyn on the pad; and the reverse on the right feet.

Let us know how the "left foot" experiment goes. Vetericyn has some remarkable results...

 

[deacons]

RN, can you explain how that punch works? I picture it being almost like an epi pen, where you have to use a bit of force to deploy the sharp part in the skin? With something as thin as a chicken's foot, how to you ensure you don't punch a hole straight through?

Actually, just when I thought I had read every blog and watched every video about bumblefoot that is out there, I came across this one (if you're squeamish this may not be your favorite video):

http://citygirlfarmingblog.com/2013...r-whats-that-chicken-doing-in-a-cat-hospital/

This woman had a vet friend who talked her through the process in the vet office- the video at the end shows use of the biopsy punch (though the infection was on the top of this particular chicken's foot).

@rnchick74 - is this similar to your process? I think I would trust myself to do this correctly more than I trust having a steady enough hand to use the scalpel.

She says the chicken didn't vocalize or seem to be in too much pain- how much do we agree with that? It does seem pretty invasive!

 

[welasharon]

Honestly mine don't seem to notice so much. I've got to where I lay them in my lap and don't even cover their heads. Occasionally they want to get up but I just lay my forearm on her side till she gets still.

 

[rnchick74]

RN, can you explain how that punch works? I picture it being almost like an epi pen, where you have to use a bit of force to deploy the sharp part in the skin? With something as thin as a chicken's foot, how to you ensure you don't punch a hole straight through?

Actually, just when I thought I had read every blog and watched every video about bumblefoot that is out there, I came across this one (if you're squeamish this may not be your favorite video):

http://citygirlfarmingblog.com/2013...r-whats-that-chicken-doing-in-a-cat-hospital/

This woman had a vet friend who talked her through the process in the vet office- the video at the end shows use of the biopsy punch (though the infection was on the top of this particular chicken's foot).

@rnchick74 - is this similar to your process? I think I would trust myself to do this correctly more than I trust having a steady enough hand to use the scalpel.

She says the chicken didn't vocalize or seem to be in too much pain- how much do we agree with that? It does seem pretty invasive!

There are several different types of biopsy punches. Some are spring loaded & some are not. The one used in the video was not - those can be pushed through the foot with enough force. The spring loaded ones are harder to do that with since the blade only comes out so far. I personally use the non-spring loaded ones since those are more readily available. You only need to go down as far as the blade is, then start twisting as you saw in the video. The main pro to using a biopsy punch vs a scalpel is that the punch gives you more control over the cutting where a scalpel is easier to get away from you unless you have practiced quite a bit to get the feel for it.

The curette that they used in the video (scoop or spoon) is really nice to use after a biopsy punch (or even a scalpel) - they also come in a variety of shapes & types. Since you are making a hole, the curette helps you scoop out any nasty dead tissue that is left in there. Some people use tweezers but curettes can also cut away still connected tissue without additional pulling or pain. The ultimate goal is a nice, clean, bleeding hole with no debris, kernels, pus, or other nastiness in it.

 

[deacons]

Day 20 (Saturday)

Mostly good updates today. Though will start with saying I think five days between bandage changes is too long. They were pretty dirty under there- sort of defeats the purpose of bandaging.

Anyway, both Pretty Girl and Goldie were looking great. I almost left one of Pretty Girl's feet unbandaged after cleaning, but there was still the slightest of indentations from where the scab had been, so I decided not to risk it.

Goldie (both feet looking good!):





Pretty Girl:


In other good news, I finally pried that stubborn plug out of Goldie #2 (the one who is now on Day 6 of treatment). It was pretty weird though. It was not cheesy, stringy, smelly, or otherwise infected looking. It was really big. But it felt sort of like the consistency of a human callous, you know, sort of rubbery and almost translucent? Anyway, the thing is out now, so hopefully healing can follow.

Here's what it looked like before coming out:



The plug (wish the picture was clearer):


And the hole left over:


The not-so-good news is that I didn't like what I saw on one of Ro's feet. I opened a scab yet again, and flushed that out. But you might remember that early on in this process, she got some small blisters in between her toes. Those concerned me today- they almost seem to show signs of infection. I couldn't tell if they were just dirty, or infected, but I did get the scabs off and when I rebandaged her feet, I put a lot of gauze in between the toes, hoping that would stop any blistering.

You can just sort of make out the blister between toes to the left (and the infection at the center of the foot doesn't seem to be healing all that well):

 

[rnchick74]

I would agree that 5 days is too long between bandage changes - my suggestion would be no longer than 3 days. Chicken feet get nasty! Pretty Girl & Goldie's feet look really good! You probably could have left Pretty Girl's open to air, but I don't think you are hurting anything by 1 more bandage change.

YEAH on getting Goldie's plug out! The plug was big! Not all plugs are going to look text book "cheesy" or pussy. The longer they are inside, the body's immune system is continuing to attach the infection and wall it off with white blood cells. The tissue isn't necrotic (dead) so you know your girl has a good immune system and was able to handle the infection - it wasn't overwhelming. The plug still needed to come out though!

Ro's foot looks ok except for the blisters. I think this one might benefit from some soaking/scrubbing on the foot. Definitely pad well where the vet wrap appears to be rubbing the toes. You can also use some liquid bandage on the blisters - let it dry well, then wrap the foot (pad blisters well with gauze still).

Hope this helps!

 

[iwiw60]

I have been subscribed to your wonderful thread since it's beginning...I look forward to your updates! But I'm wondering....has the "cause" of so many in your flock's bumblefoot cases been addressed? I mean, have you narrowed down the true cause as to why they're getting bumblefoot so as to halt possible new cases of it?

 

[deacons]

RN, thanks for the advice on Ro, I will see what I can do about giving her an epsom salt soak next time around. And I agree on the 3 day bandage change schedule- we will definitely be going back to that.

IW- I think the cause was most likely a too-high roosting bar, at least initially. That has been addressed. Another contributing issue is probably the area that they free range (somewhat rocky ground, meadows + forest edges that have raspberry brambles and other assorted prickery growths), but I don't see any way for me to control that absent not free ranging them at all. Right now, I'm not willing to never let them out. I will continue to monitor their feet after this incident is resolved, and if I end up back in this position, obviously I may need to reconsider. I'm hoping it won't come to that.