American Reza (Pakistani) Asil

[determed]

If I am not mistaken, there is a Pakistani - American breeder in Virginia, his fowl seem to be of Pakistan directly as he is originally from there and travels back. His fowl are distinctive, understandably so.

American Asils have a 137 year history of importations, travel up and down the Atlantic Seaboard, then out west to California and back East, becoming established in Middle America, all the while what survived arduous tests and trials was obviously perpetuated and blended. Of course breeders were (and still are) concerned with form, function and performance, otherwise they are not gamefowl. The original asils imported to the US were the small Reza type for a reason.

Some breeders prefer them taller and larger around 7-8lbs, some prefer them closer to 4 lbs. This type of variation always existed, based on one’s selection, style, not to mention environment.

If you read work by Mr. H. Atkinson, he describes the best in his opinion but also in the opinion of the Indian breeders he met while living in India. They were the smaller asils, because of style (and maybe social circles/status). Mr. Atkinson is who facilitated the early importations to American breeders like Dr. H. P. Clarke in 1887, Mr. McCoy, Mr. Graves, Mr. E. A. Wheeler (1910-1930s). According to Mr. C. A. Finsterbush, they were ‘Rajah Murgh’, mostly from in and around Lucknow. Greys, light and dark reds and black Asil were imported from Lahore and Rampur also. Mr. C. A. Finsterbusch writes about this history, and some of the various strains in their homeland, but what made an impression on the American roostermen and their fowl were the 4 to 5 pound Asil. No one should wonder too hard on where the pea comb trait among American Gamefowl derived.

Also, Mr. Manuel Reynolds was breeding ‘Atkinson Asil’ since 1947. Once he got the imported Desi Asil in the 1960s, they became the foundation. Having said this, he bred the Atkinson blood in twice before Mr. C. Hanson got them.

Despite what can be read by Dr. Everett on feathersite, Manuel Reynolds did not have Hyderabad Asil.

I’ve spoke with Mr. C. Hanson, he imported the Hyderabad Asil fowl (as we know them here), not Mr. Reynolds. This does not means that all ‘Reynolds Asil’ have the Hyderabad Asil blood in them, what it does mean however, is that all ‘Hyderabad Asil’ here in the US (if from the various American Asil families up to this point of the shared history) likely have the Desi Asil blood (along with Atkinson and likely ‘Kaptan’ blood) as a foundation.

Folks still maintain and breed correctly, the old Asil blood, but the climate, properties in the soil, feed, severe winters, various styles, all made them different than how they were the previous centuries and beyond in Punjab and Sindh.

We have maintained them for over 13 centuries. My bloodlines duty.
I agree with you on the hydrabad imported by hanson.
Breeding correctly by their own standards yes, but true to type from centuries ago like the Maharajas did, only few have that practice.

 

[RFoxfire]

We have maintained them for over 13 centuries. My bloodlines duty.
I agree with you on the hydrabad imported by hanson.
Breeding correctly by their own standards yes, but true to type from centuries ago like the Maharajas did, only few have that practice.

13 centuries is a long time. The Asil your family has maintained, care to share what they look like?

From what I understand, the old blood, and obviously folks in Pakistan and India still have them, have an outline/profile that extends from the head, angles like a slope down to the tail, no break. The tail continuing with this “unbroken line” down toward and touching the ground.

Added bankiva or maybe what American roostermen called ‘Jap’ blood or Thai blood likely contributed to the break in the tail and overall it changes the profile of the bird. Many asils here have a tail that doesn’t extend in that continuous, sloping line to the ground. The tail is carried higher. As I understand.

I free range my fowl for example. Better for the chicks to mature that way. Cocks on a rotation, if I can afford to roll the dice on the gauntlet of predation they must run. If my Asil don’t roost, I either close them up at night, or they get killed more easily at night. Some Asil stags roost, some cocks do, but plenty don’t. Most of my hens will roost in lower branches or in rafters when free range, a couple few do not roost at all.

Mr. Herbert Atkinson had some nice examples of that original North Indian ideal, with the sloping, “unbroken” profile, but if you read his work, he also mentions the changes that occur after a time being away from their native land. “English Game become ‘Indianized’ in India, Indian Asil become ‘Anglicized’ in England.” More or less is how he described.

Being a domesticated animal, one would expect to see this after a time. The genetic variation is there within the species, like the chicken or the dog or the horse. Not all animals have the variation required to even become manipulated for domestication. I would argue this makes domestic animals more susceptible to environmental factors than a wild, undomesticated species.

Natural selection does not stop, just because artificial selection is taking place. The environment has a great deal to do with why fowl look the way they do. Obviously selection also, but they are kept exposed to different environmental factors that are significant.

A simple experiment on this, which I have done, is to take a pair of fowl, raise some trios or any number of hens and a cock in two groups, and simply let them free range on their own at two separate locations. After a while, one will notice differences between the two flocks.

Fowl from warm or tropical or dry climates for example, will sometimes not produce big, strong, healthy chicks their first year breeding in a new, cold or wet or however different environment foreign to them. I’ve seen this occur. The second year clutch, after some time for the brood fowl to become acclimated, much improved. All things being equal, it’s obvious to me it was the environment.

Even the feed. What crops are grown there? What’s available? It’s all dependent on location in the world. Not to mention the soil. The water. Brackish. Swampy. Running spring. Maybe the water has more iron or is hard water. Maybe the only water available is from a treated city tap, not a trough collecting barn roof rain for some cattle.

Composition of tree species and other vegetation. Scratching fowl get all types of nutrients and vitamins at varying degrees from the soil, loam, and substrate they live on, and those differences impact the phenotype of the fowl over time.

 

[RFoxfire]

“…from the Notebooks of Herbert Atkinson of Ewelme”, Nimrod Press LTD, 1977.

 

[RFoxfire]

My Asil stag on the yard. His brother is in a pen(s) for stud mating. These Asil are very athletic and able to roost with the American game hens.

My grey line at 6 pounds, is as large as I’ve seen able to survive for more than a couple years free range in the Northeast, US.

My other ‘Pakistani’ blood is so far not always able to roost where needed free range, and stags get taken if not cooped up. The brood cock for that line is 6 pounds 4 oz.

 

[RFoxfire]

Asil yard stag.

 

[RFoxfire]

Asil brood cock, my red line I started with. Reynolds/Hanson/Vilorio / Reynolds/Harris/Grissom ‘Pakistani’ asil. Blended lines before I got my original pair.

Smaller Asil stags have all that but were from an outcross from a cock from Mr. Clark. His Mr. Grissom Asil blood.

 

[determed]

13 centuries is a long time. The Asil your family has maintained, care to share what they look like?

From what I understand, the old blood, and obviously folks in Pakistan and India still have them, have an outline/profile that extends from the head, angles like a slope down to the tail, no break. The tail continuing with this “unbroken line” down toward and touching the ground.

Added bankiva or maybe what American roostermen called ‘Jap’ blood or Thai blood likely contributed to the break in the tail and overall it changes the profile of the bird. Many asils here have a tail that doesn’t extend in that continuous, sloping line to the ground. The tail is carried higher. As I understand.

I free range my fowl for example. Better for the chicks to mature that way. Cocks on a rotation, if I can afford to roll the dice on the gauntlet of predation they must run. If my Asil don’t roost, I either close them up at night, or they get killed more easily at night. Some Asil stags roost, some cocks do, but plenty don’t. Most of my hens will roost in lower branches or in rafters when free range, a couple few do not roost at all.

Mr. Herbert Atkinson had some nice examples of that original North Indian ideal, with the sloping, “unbroken” profile, but if you read his work, he also mentions the changes that occur after a time being away from their native land. “English Game become ‘Indianized’ in India, Indian Asil become ‘Anglicized’ in England.” More or less is how he described.

Being a domesticated animal, one would expect to see this after a time. The genetic variation is there within the species, like the chicken or the dog or the horse. Not all animals have the variation required to even become manipulated for domestication. I would argue this makes domestic animals more susceptible to environmental factors than a wild, undomesticated species.

Natural selection does not stop, just because artificial selection is taking place. The environment has a great deal to do with why fowl look the way they do. Obviously selection also, but they are kept exposed to different environmental factors that are significant.

A simple experiment on this, which I have done, is to take a pair of fowl, raise some trios or any number of hens and a cock in two groups, and simply let them free range on their own at two separate locations. After a while, one will notice differences between the two flocks.

Fowl from warm or tropical or dry climates for example, will sometimes not produce big, strong, healthy chicks their first year breeding in a new, cold or wet or however different environment foreign to them. I’ve seen this occur. The second year clutch, after some time for the brood fowl to become acclimated, much improved. All things being equal, it’s obvious to me it was the environment.

Even the feed. What crops are grown there? What’s available? It’s all dependent on location in the world. Not to mention the soil. The water. Brackish. Swampy. Running spring. Maybe the water has more iron or is hard water. Maybe the only water available is from a treated city tap, not a trough collecting barn roof rain for some cattle.

Composition of tree species and other vegetation. Scratching fowl get all types of nutrients and vitamins at varying degrees from the soil, loam, and substrate they live on, and those differences impact the phenotype of the fowl over time.

 

[determed]

we look for wide backs cusped wings and neck posture. Head like an axe, with pressure point since day 1. 6 to 7.5 #'s

 

[determed]

we look for wide backs cusped wings and neck posture. Head like an axe, with pressure point since day 1. 6 to 7.5 #'s

also you will notice the squinted eyes on some of the fowl, all throw backs.
These i just picked, theres 4 separate lines.
Many of the different breeds came down from these lines. Other lines were added and other birds were created Asil. I am of Brahman blood. This is who preserved the bloodlines.

 

[determed]

The other thing is, the only breed of asil which was created later that was in the 4# mark was from pakistan. Later it moved to sri lanka. The lithograph you posted is nothing like the true Asil. It seems more americanized. But i understand what you are getting at. Even in all the ancient paintings the bird are like our bam bam, amroha, Indian lines. That lithorgaph shows Amroha frame. You can see some of the old pictures here are getting too old.