At wits end with biting chickens...

[urbanbantams]

I have 3 six-month old chickens (Ginger - Golden Comet, Pepper & Mushroom - Black Australorps).

Ginger has always been a biter. Not in a mean way, but more exploratory/treat related. I've followed the advice on this forum, but can't seem to break her of it. She's behaved this way before and after laying eggs.

Pepper has had a slight aggression issue with rakes/poop scoops. Once in a while she'll get wound up and start posturing/attacking while I'm cleaning up. It mostly happens if I nudge her with the rake in an attempt to move her (as you know, they're constantly underfoot). I've also had issues where I've needed to work in their run, and Pepper will be RIGHT THERE trying to nip at me and whatever I'm doing. I'll gently nudge her away, and she starts posturing to fight. I peck her on the back/head, and while she initially runs away, she comes right back to continue the confrontation.

This all came to a head today. Ginger bit my leg, so I immediately started to correct her with back pecks. Pepper did not like that, and flew at me like a freaking rooster. Bit my hand and drew blood. I tried to pin her down, but she would NOT submit so I backed off rather than risk hurting her. I will add that she just started laying eggs 2 days ago.

I feel like total crap. Pepper is sweet 95% of the time, and even enjoys being pet on the belly. I don't know what else to do. Any advice, criticism, or "that happened to me too"s are appreciated.

I don’t have a good solution for “fixing” the aggression but I do have a thought around how we tend to want all of our animals to fit into a cute cozy idea of how they should behave. It might be helpful to think about how her behavior is actually a really good sign that she would survive and that any chicks she hatches would be fiercely protected. I know we all love the chickens that are docile and sweet and easily fit into the “pet” chicken picture, but the truth is that she is displaying the kind of behaviors that helped chicken survive for a lot of years. I know it can be annoying and inconvenient but I find it helpful to remember that chickens are still just animals that have evolved over centuries and the gene pool offers a wide variety of traits that come through. The other option, if you simply can’t live with her protective/aggressive nature, of course would be to rehome her somewhere that those traits aren’t an issue. I hope this doesn’t sound judgy or harsh - I definitely don’t mean it that way. just trying to bring up an alternative way to think about her behavior that might make it feel less problematic.
One other thought is around the flock dynamics. Do you know if she is under any kind of stress or anxiety? Harvey Ussery ( author of The Small Scale Poultry Flock) talks about how he handles his roosters, in terms of carefully choosing when and how he interacts with them, so that he doesn’t put them in positions where aggressive behavior is their best option. I found his advice and perspective really helpful.
Hope you find a workable solution for everyone - she sounds like a special chicken!

 

[Folly's place]

I have hens who bite when disturbed when they are in a nest box, not broody. I can only imagine how those ladies would act when broody! Gloves, long sleeves, and knowing who they are, all annoying but manageable issues.
Mary

 

[thecatumbrella]

I don’t have a good solution for “fixing” the aggression but I do have a thought around how we tend to want all of our animals to fit into a cute cozy idea of how they should behave. It might be helpful to think about how her behavior is actually a really good sign that she would survive and that any chicks she hatches would be fiercely protected. I know we all love the chickens that are docile and sweet and easily fit into the “pet” chicken picture, but the truth is that she is displaying the kind of behaviors that helped chicken survive for a lot of years. I know it can be annoying and inconvenient but I find it helpful to remember that chickens are still just animals that have evolved over centuries and the gene pool offers a wide variety of traits that come through. The other option, if you simply can’t live with her protective/aggressive nature, of course would be to rehome her somewhere that those traits aren’t an issue. I hope this doesn’t sound judgy or harsh - I definitely don’t mean it that way. just trying to bring up an alternative way to think about her behavior that might make it feel less problematic.
One other thought is around the flock dynamics. Do you know if she is under any kind of stress or anxiety? Harvey Ussery ( author of The Small Scale Poultry Flock) talks about how he handles his roosters, in terms of carefully choosing when and how he interacts with them, so that he doesn’t put them in positions where aggressive behavior is their best option. I found his advice and perspective really helpful.
Hope you find a workable solution for everyone - she sounds like a special chicken!

I think that’s a very educated perspective!

I’ll admit, I had no idea what to expect for chicken behavior, nevermind that their personalities can change with each new hormonal boost. They ride this weird line between domesticated and wild, and you’re right, Pepper’s ultimately just being a chicken. My line is: don’t come looking for fights with me (which she still is). She’s been an anxious bird since Day 1, so I imagine laying eggs has been a lot for her to handle. I’ll absolutely rehome in the spring if she doesn’t chill out. And thank you for the book recommendation, I’ll absolutely check it out!

 

[thecatumbrella]

I have hens who bite when disturbed when they are in a nest box, not broody. I can only imagine how those ladies would act when broody! Gloves, long sleeves, and knowing who they are, all annoying but manageable issues.
Mary

I’m starting to think I need to invest in chainmail gloves if this is to become a long-term hobby.

 

[Folly's place]

Kevlar will do...
Mary

 

[BunnyChickenMomma]

Thanks for posting this. I'm sorry you're going through the same thing, but it's also comforting to not to be alone. Buff Orpington's are supposed to be one of the gentlest breeds (same with Australorps)! I'm bummed for both of us.

It's always good to know you aren't alone! I just try to love her for her cranky self and she has calmed down a teeny bit. This weekend, she actually roosted on my lap and fell asleep. So, who knows?

 

[DarkKnight]

I have 3 six-month old chickens (Ginger - Golden Comet, Pepper & Mushroom - Black Australorps).

Ginger has always been a biter. Not in a mean way, but more exploratory/treat related. I've followed the advice on this forum, but can't seem to break her of it. She's behaved this way before and after laying eggs.

Pepper has had a slight aggression issue with rakes/poop scoops. Once in a while she'll get wound up and start posturing/attacking while I'm cleaning up. It mostly happens if I nudge her with the rake in an attempt to move her (as you know, they're constantly underfoot). I've also had issues where I've needed to work in their run, and Pepper will be RIGHT THERE trying to nip at me and whatever I'm doing. I'll gently nudge her away, and she starts posturing to fight. I peck her on the back/head, and while she initially runs away, she comes right back to continue the confrontation.

This all came to a head today. Ginger bit my leg, so I immediately started to correct her with back pecks. Pepper did not like that, and flew at me like a freaking rooster. Bit my hand and drew blood. I tried to pin her down, but she would NOT submit so I backed off rather than risk hurting her. I will add that she just started laying eggs 2 days ago.

I feel like total crap. Pepper is sweet 95% of the time, and even enjoys being pet on the belly. I don't know what else to do. Any advice, criticism, or "that happened to me too"s are appreciated.

I am new to chicken keeping, so my opinion may be less helpful, but I am not new to having pets in general. I've also spent a lot of time this month reading and researching chicken behavior. My advice:

Animals in general: You can not tolerate any sort of attack or obvious aggression towards you. Forgive mistake biting, like when feeding, but attacks needs to be addressed immediately. You need to make sure they know with absolute certainty before they attack you that if they do it, severe consequences will follow. If you turn your back, flee, or otherwise do not completely and aggressively stand up for yourself to animals, they will own you. You are an apex predator. Unless you are facing another apex predator (which have their own strategies) you must demonstrate dominance over other animals when threatened.

Chickens specifically: The weight of an average sized rooster is ~10lbs. Hens are built to handle at least that much down force on their backs, or they'd die while getting mounted. Pick up a couple of 5lb sacks of flour and feel how much weight that is in one hand. It's more than you might think.

In practice, you put 3 fingers behind one wing, your thumb behind the other so you have firm hold of (but not squeezing) their rib cage, and your pointer finger on the back of their neck and firmly push forward and down until their breast bone makes full contact with the ground. If you have your hand in the right position, they will not be able to flap at all and if your grip is correct, they can't bite you. (This is also a useful grip to pick up a feisty chicken because again, they can't flap, kick, or bite anything but air.) Keep them there until they stop struggling. Relax your grip slowly and push them down again each time they try to get up until they finally stay put without your hand there. It might take a little while. When they are willing to do that, they have then actually submitted to you. You have shown them you are a predator. Letting them up while they are fighting or fleeing only demonstrates to them that they can win. When they understand they can't fight and can't get away and they are fully at your mercy, they will usually think twice before attacking.

If you are unable to do this because your hand is too small or your grip weak, then you can handle problem girls like a rooster does. Pinch the skin on the back of their necks and (gently) push their neck flat to the ground. They will react by squawking and furiously trying to kick backwards and pull out of your grip, so it's important to have your other hand on their back keeping them from pulling hard enough to break their own necks. Keep their neck flat against the ground and put pressure on their back until they calm down. It usually only takes 5-10 seconds to break their fight/flight reflex. Then, again, you must follow through and keep firm pressure on their back like a rooster mount and hold them there until they have no fight/flee response left.

These techniques have been really successful with my flock, and although when younger 3 of them all tried biting me as 2-3 month olds, none of them now do it out of aggression, but sometimes when feeding snacks.

Edit: Typos.

 

[thecatumbrella]

These techniques have been really successful with my flock, and although when younger 3 of them all tried biting me as 2-3 month olds, none of them now do it out of aggression, but sometimes when feeding snacks.

Excellent advice on technique! Thank you!

One problem I've had is I find I need to take the offending chicken (who are we kidding... it's Pepper) into a separate pen to prevent the other chickens from interfering. This creates a delay between action and consequence. Of course I swoop them up immediately, which they also hate, but I'm wondering if my subsequent dominance routine is now disjointed from their action?

Perhaps it doesn't matter. There's a split second delay between pecking me and getting grabbed. The entire ordeal is unpleasant for them. I will focus more on making sure she stays down once I pin.

 

[thecatumbrella]

UPDATE

We're one week into no treats no pets. Ginger has improved dramatically! There is a lot less stress and tension in the pen without the expectation of goodies. We're going to try an automatic treat dispenser above their dig box that will release BSFL about an hour before bedtime... hopefully not on my head because I forget when it's going off! This should disassociate us from treats, but still allow us to supplement their feed with a high-protein snack.

Pepper has started biting at our boots. She gets corrected every time. We make efforts not to trigger her, but are also not shying away when we need to move about the pen. It's very frustrating. We're going to tread water for the winter, then decide whether Pepper warrants a rehoming.

Thank you for the continued advice; it's really helped us to manage this.

 

[Debbie292d]

Maybe it's an article of clothing that triggers this, certain boots perhaps? Or maybe wearing a standard set of clothing every time so they become familiar?

Case in point on the clothing topic; my sister in MN raises turkeys commercially. They have about a dozen turkey buildings with thousands in each at various ages. When we go to "tour" her complex, she is very strict about what we wear: Earth colors, browns preferred, no hats, no perfume, cologne, purses, or anything in our hands, foot covers, and a mask. The latter two are a bit overkill for us and our coops, but the other things might be things to consider.