Avoiding Inbred Chickens

[AmyLynn2374]

Of course everything hatched has value. Culling can mean sold as a pullet/layer or to your personal layer flock. It's not always killing. Cockerels usually are killed when culled from breeding but that chicken dinner has value too. It's not ruthless at all, it's husbandry and maintaining a sustainable flock, egg and meat source. The breeding is a bonus enjoyment and sense of accomplishment. For all the chicks hatched many can immediately be sold straight run as you get better with early signs of keepers for the breed.

Yes, I know this but he isn't saying this. He's saying less than perfect birds should not even be sold and those of us that aren't breeding for perfection shouldn't be breeding. Some of us just want a nice little flock that is pleasing to the eye and are willing to take on those of less desirable traits. Does not mean I would breed my "special needs" roo with my hens for any reason. Means I value his life enough (especially since it was my bad incubation) to let him live his. No, I don't have a problem breeding/raising for food, I myself could not and would not, any more than I could go hunting and shoot a deer, but I don't think less of those that do nor do I expect someone who is ruthless with life to look down at my softer personality and critisize my desire to value life in all it's imperfections. I am not running a business nor would I be any good at profiting from a business where I had to put a price on the value of the life of an animal. I have no problem admitting that.

 

[WalnutHill]

What if your rooster was a slow developer, smaller than the others, but caught up to the others within 12 weeks? (I think mine wasn't slow because of genetics, but because I cracked his egg and had to superglue it together). He's my only rooster now, and I want to breed for my own flock, and maybe to give away some pullets too. I'm not showing or selling--but should I find a better rooster?

I personally do not breed slow developing birds. While they may become part of my layer flock, they will not be part of my breeding flock. I have one now that had only primaries when his siblings were fully feathering in. He'll go to dinner when he is big enough.

Cracking the shell would not affect post-hatch development. Roosters are generally readily available so I'd start with the best you can find. They do provide 50% of the genetics, and slow development is never a desirable characteristic.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

In some breeds the slow to fill out is a desired trait. Look at the Jersey Giant. The actual mature size of that bird has gone down over the years in many lines due to the breeding for faster maturity which the Giant was never intended to be. In reality the slower to fill out birds/skinny at 12 weeks are the ones that will continue to fill out and hit the 13lbs standard weight of the breed. Lanky young birds being preferred here but not confused with slow feathering.

Faster feathering is a great quality and lends to better eggs laying. One of the problems with heritage Barred Plymouth Rocks is the tendency for slow feathering in current lines. It's the manifestation of decades long breeding for plumage without regard of the other and arguably more important standards of the breed. Fundamentally it was a workhorse dual purpose breed. Some breeders are taking steps to get the function back into Barred Plymouth Rock form. Fred's Hens is an example that has made some great strides in that regard.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I've not yet bred chickens (have worked with other animals though), but if I were going to I would go with "spiral breeding." Look it up; only thing is I think you'd probably do better with more than 13 chickens.

Agree that culling is very important. Produce a lot, cull a lot. If you really care about the breed you're working with, you'll accept nothing less than perfection. Especially if you plan on selling, you want your customers to get the very best.

Ruthless indeed! Yes, a god that plays favorites is not good. Nature is ruthless, it kills whenever animals show a moment of weakness. This is what keeps wild animals strong and healthy. We should act in the same manner with our domestic animals. When we don't, we end up with pug-faced bulldogs who can't breathe, collies that are afraid of sheep and other tragedies. The same thing could happen to chickens if people favor the wrong traits.

Treat each bird in an equal and objective manner, without favoring any over the other or compensating for weaknesses. And start with the best stock you can afford.

I agree about starting with more than 13 individuals but that is how many birds that the beginning poster has. Hopefully he or she will be able to maintain the good traits in his or her chickens. The O-P made no mention about breeding a chicken that has 4 drumsticks or any other special trait, just wanted to avoid inbreeding. With care a well bred trio can be bred up into a viable family.

99.99% of the people reading these words can buy better chickens than they will ever be able to breed for themselves. Sorry but it is the truth. So start with good birds and try to make them better, or at least keep them from regressing.

If anyone doesn't know the meaning of the term "Single Mating" then you are already behind.

I have known a few chicken breeders and i can't think of one who didn't evaluate 100s of individual hens and roosters every year. The better than average birds rose to the top and passed on their genes, the so/so birds never left grandsons and granddaughters behind to embarrass their owners. In other words when breeding chickens, you don't know when you are looking at a good mating or a dead end road until you travel down that road for a generation or two. It requires patience and dedication.

One of the most powerful tools a chicken breeder has is the inbreeding tool. However you must learn how and when to use it and not fear it. Every chicken trait and breed from the sublime to the ridiculous are the direct result of inbreeding, line breeding and crossbreeding. Together these tools form the triad of genetic manipulation.

 

[chiques chicks]

I wholeheartedly agree with much have what has been said. When people ask about helping eggs hatch, I'm at a loss. I want a strong flock. Any sick or weak chicks unable to survive are not desirable TO ME. My personal choice. I do not breed to SOP.
not opposed to those who help, not opposed to SOP and showing. Just not my goal. Predator wary, able to withstand heat and cold, those are my primary concerns.

I have one bird with a gene I want to isolate. I have no option but to inbreed. At some point undesirable traits will appear and I'll need to introduce new blood and breed back to what I want. For now, I must inbreed to get that one trait isolated and established.

Inbreeding has its purposes. It can carry both desirable and undesirable traits.

 

[WalnutHill]

In some breeds the slow to fill out is a desired trait. Look at the Jersey Giant. The actual mature size of that bird has gone down over the years in many lines due to the breeding for faster maturity which the Giant was never intended to be. In reality the slower to fill out birds/skinny at 12 weeks are the ones that will continue to fill out and hit the 13lbs standard weight of the breed. Lanky young birds being preferred here but not confused with slow feathering.

Faster feathering is a great quality and lends to better eggs laying. One of the problems with heritage Barred Plymouth Rocks is the tendency for slow feathering in current lines. It's the manifestation of decades long breeding for plumage without regard of the other and arguably more important standards of the breed. Fundamentally it was a workhorse dual purpose breed. Some breeders are taking steps to get the function back into Barred Plymouth Rock form. Fred's Hens is an example that has made some great strides in that regard.

Good points all. I should have qualified that as "in general". Out of a hatch of 12, assuming the parent stock is comparable, I will NOT select the runt or developmentally delayed or extra/missing toe or crossbeak or angel wing offspring for anything other than food. I'm not trying to develop new bantams, or chase after sports. I just want a predictable flock of healthy, hardy, economical to develop egg laying birds (my chickens) or healthy, meaty, fast developing meat birds (my turkeys) without consideration of color, feathering patterns, or sex linking. A bonus is the ability to eat those that don't make the cut, as long as they don't eat me out of house and home reaching table size. I wish I had more pasture for these culls.

I also have a develomentally delayed rooster, he was a runt, and was for many weeks half the size of his siblings and nearly naked. Yes, he did develop and feather out to a beautiful tricolor pattern...but I have an identically patterned cockerel from the previous set that developed and feathered quickly. If I keep one of those, it'll be the one that kept pace with his peers.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

A bonus is the ability to eat those that don't make the cut, as long as they don't eat me out of house and home reaching table size. I wish I had more pasture for these culls.

Consider selling to reptile owners or dog/cat/ferret raw feeders. You can sell them live or pre-killed and frozen, either way they will pay for it- not much but I imagine it would add up.

 

[eviemethugh]

Ha, well yes culling does not have to mean taking a shovel to a one day old chicken. For us, it usually means the less desirable roosters are grown out to about 20 weeks and sent to freezer camp. Which personally, I love freezer camp, I eat meat, might as well know that it was loved and saw grass and bugs and treats. But we also don't have a breeding program in place. We do keep our Dominiques up, but currently have 3 roosters to about 10 girls, so yes...we will pick the one who is the best to his girls because that is what we personally need. But for instance, one of our Dom hens has a poor comb and just generally doesn't look/act good...we eat her eggs. She is still alive and well, but she isn't going to be a mama. If we were serious about breeding, she would be one of the first I would consider selling to a friend who just wants eggs.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I am so glad I am not ruthless or heartless and am kind hearted enough to take care of what I breed and not play God. As for your opinion of the nice guys should not be breeding and raising chickens, it's my opinion that ruthless people who don't take responsibility for the animals they have decided to bring into this world should not be breeding chickens. Just because something isn't perfect does not mean it doesn't have quality.

I agree that a sick or suffering bird should be culled and I agree that you shouldn't knowingly be selling birds/eggs from a chicken with problems. Or breeding from a bird that produces offspring with serious issues. As for just not being perfect, many people aren't looking for perfection in their birds and as long as you aren't selling them as high or show quality and the person knows that they are not getting show quality there is nothing wrong with selling them.

As for assisting, I've said it before in this arguement and I'll say it again. My very first assist was a very malpostioned chick. She would not have been able to get out due to her position and would have died. She is and always has been a beautiful healthy girl and is now one of my top egg layers. I've done a handful of assists since her all with great results. You can have your opinion, but to say those of us who have a heart shouldn't breed is ignorant. We do just fine balancing breeding/raising and empathy thank you very much.

I'm not even going to touch the good looking egg comment.

In other words we agree to disagree about your first sentence. Being ruthlessness and having a kind heart is in the eye of the beholder.

So after rearing and rereading your first paragraph are you saying that you don't take responsibility for your own chickens and that you should not be allowed to breed animals? Inquiring minds want to know.

The truth of the matter is that every bird that you refuse or fail to breed has in effect been culled. The reason behind this failure to breed or being culled is besides the point.

It is easy for those of us who have an overly important opinion of our own beliefs to call other people or their beliefs "ignorant"

It is IMHO much more emphatic to hatch and raise chickens without health problems than it is to breed untold generations of pain, suffering, diseases, and deformities into your chickens' DNA.

But hey, they (the chickens) belong to you and you pay their feed bill, so knock yourself out but do whatever is best for the most birds. The problem is knowing what is the best for your birds.

 

[WalnutHill]

And I sell my cull layers...past their prime or underproductive...as live stewing hens. I cull too many to eat them all. If they've given me a year's worth of laying, they've paid their way and can go off to retirement or dinner as the buyer prefers.