Avoiding Inbred Chickens

[Ol Grey Mare]

The truth of the matter is that every bird that you refuse or fail to breed has in effect been culled. The reason behind this failure to breed is besides the point.

Exactly - the word "cull" has more meaning than simply to kill -- any selective breeding program (of any species) involves culling - and those "culls" can be killed or allowed to mature and live out their days- they just aren't used in the breeding program. To cull is merely to select.

 

[WalnutHill]

I am so glad I am not ruthless or heartless and am kind hearted enough to take care of what I breed and not play God. As for your opinion of the nice guys should not be breeding and raising chickens, it's my opinion that ruthless people who don't take responsibility for the animals they have decided to bring into this world should not be breeding chickens. Just because something isn't perfect does not mean it doesn't have quality.

I agree that a sick or suffering bird should be culled and I agree that you shouldn't knowingly be selling birds/eggs from a chicken with problems. Or breeding from a bird that produces offspring with serious issues. As for just not being perfect, many people aren't looking for perfection in their birds and as long as you aren't selling them as high or show quality and the person knows that they are not getting show quality there is nothing wrong with selling them.

As for assisting, I've said it before in this arguement and I'll say it again. My very first assist was a very malpostioned chick. She would not have been able to get out due to her position and would have died. She is and always has been a beautiful healthy girl and is now one of my top egg layers. I've done a handful of assists since her all with great results. You can have your opinion, but to say those of us who have a heart shouldn't breed is ignorant. We do just fine balancing breeding/raising and empathy thank you very much.

I'm not even going to touch the good looking egg comment.

By culling (either by raising and eating or selling to be eaten) birds that have genetic defects, I am taking responsibility for what I brought into the world, because if I did not incubate eggs artificially and brood artificially few if any of those birds would make it to maturity in a barnyard.

Egg quality is important. If I have a gorgeous hen who consistently lays fragile eggs, she is not going to stay in my flock. If I have a solid large fowl hen who consistently lays tiny eggs, she is not going to stay in my flock. If I have a hen who lays porous eggs, or lumpy eggs, or who is frequently egg bound, she is not going to stay in my flock. But for a hen who is prolapsed, or is injured, or becomes ill, she will be cared for and euthanized if necessary. A hen who is molting will molt and hopefully get back to laying. A hen who is broody will be broken of broodiness as there is no place for that in the layer house.

And some breeds are about egg color as well...I personally like the rainbow but if I wanted pale blue, I have just the hen...I'd just need a while Leghorn roo...

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

By culling (either by raising and eating or selling to be eaten) birds that have genetic defects, I am taking responsibility for what I brought into the world, because if I did not incubate eggs artificially and brood artificially few if any of those birds would make it to maturity in a barnyard.

Egg quality is important. If I have a gorgeous hen who consistently lays fragile eggs, she is not going to stay in my flock. If I have a solid large fowl hen who consistently lays tiny eggs, she is not going to stay in my flock. If I have a hen who lays porous eggs, or lumpy eggs, or who is frequently egg bound, she is not going to stay in my flock. But for a hen who is prolapsed, or is injured, or becomes ill, she will be cared for and euthanized if necessary. A hen who is molting will molt and hopefully get back to laying. A hen who is broody will be broken of broodiness as there is no place for that in the layer house.

And some breeds are about egg color as well...I personally like the rainbow but if I wanted pale blue, I have just the hen...I'd just need a while Leghorn roo...

X 2 - in fact, you are doing MORE of a service to the breed and species as a whole than those who are unwilling/unable to be selective.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

It is easy for those of us who have an overly important opinion of our own beliefs to call other people or their beliefs "ignorant"

It was YOUR overly important belief that if other's did not breed to your way of breeding and raising that they should not raise chickens (basically you're saying only your way is right and if not done your way, or hold your belief one shouldn't be raising) I called ignorant. Not your difference in opinions on how raising/breeding should be done (though I do oppose and disagree). I respect other's opinions until their opinions insult my own. You basically said that I should not be breeding because I do not RUTHLESSLY cull my birds. Great for you that's how you operate, but you have no right to say that someone that does not do the same should not be raising as well. I can totally take (and many times see the other's points in discussions and many times walk away with a better understanding of why they do what they do, (Doesn't mean I will ever accept them as mine.) until they attack my opinions and method of operations as if theirs is the only way.

 

[scflock]

It was YOUR overly important belief that if other's did not breed to your way of breeding and raising that they should not raise chickens (basically you're saying only your way is right and if not done your way, or hold your belief one shouldn't be raising) I called ignorant. Not your difference in opinions on how raising/breeding should be done (though I do oppose and disagree). I respect other's opinions until their opinions insult my own. You basically said that I should not be breeding because I do not RUTHLESSLY cull my birds. Great for you that's how you operate, but you have no right to say that someone that does not do the same should not be raising as well. I can totally take (and many times see the other's points in discussions and many times walk away with a better understanding of why they do what they do, (Doesn't mean I will ever accept them as mine.) until they attack my opinions and method of operations as if theirs is the only way.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

It was YOUR overly important belief that if other's did not breed to your way of breeding and raising that they should not raise chickens (basically you're saying only your way is right and if not done your way, or hold your belief one shouldn't be raising) I called ignorant. Not your difference in opinions on how raising/breeding should be done (though I do oppose and disagree). I respect other's opinions until their opinions insult my own. You basically said that I should not be breeding because I do not RUTHLESSLY cull my birds. Great for you that's how you operate, but you have no right to say that someone that does not do the same should not be raising as well. I can totally take (and many times see the other's points in discussions and many times walk away with a better understanding of why they do what they do, (Doesn't mean I will ever accept them as mine.) until they attack my opinions and method of operations as if theirs is the only way.

All difference of opinion is attack. People have a right to have an opinion. To have an opinion is to attack other opinions.

Let's say there were two people. One says there is a god, one says there is not. Both opinions are a clash of ideas. They are by their very nature attacks on each other. Whether the people who hold these beliefs personally insult each other or not, the opinions are attacks. One opposing concept naturally attacks the other. Such is life.

People have a right to say whatever they wish. When someone sees something they believe is wrong or damaging, they are obligated to speak out. On that note, I think heavy culling is necessary to maintain health, and that it is unfair to offer people "low-quality" birds that cannot stay healthy on their own. Indiscriminate breeding is damaging and irresponsible and yes, wrong. In other words, people shouldn't do it. I have no problem telling people to spay and neuter their dogs, so I'll also tell people not to hatch eggs unless they're capable. Whether you "respect" that or not is irrelevant. I don't even know what the means to be honest.

I think this topic is getting off-topic and may not be of any use to the original poster anymore.

 

[WalnutHill]

Hatcheries would not be able to stay in business if they only used SOP stock, because there isn't enough to go around (in large part thanks to hatcheries diluting breed quality!)

When I got started in chickens, I was so naive. I knew horses, in particular Appaloosas, and could spot bad genetics almost instantly. I'm talking about paint genes, gray genes, dilution of Appaloosa genes to get a better looking horse but that is missing some of the key Appaloosa points that make it a unique breed. But chickens? Two eyes, straight beak, two wings, two legs, lays eggs, clucks or crows...yep it's a chicken. And I could pick a Rhode Island Red from a White Leghorn, or a White Leghorn from a White Plymouth Rock. And silly me, I thought that if I bought Barred Rocks from the hatchery they'd all lay as many eggs as the sales catalog said, and they'd be healthy, hearty, happy birds.

What I got was crow headed, poor laying, narrow hipped, skittish birds that almost turned me away from chickens. Then I got some Ameraucanas...I didn't yet know enough to know that green shanks and green eggs were bad. They were just Easter Eggers, but a hatchery wouldn't lie, would they? Then I got some Anconas...beautiful, but so tiny, and of 15 straight run chicks ALL were cockerels. Not enough meat to bother even processing. They did tick duty in our woods for a season or two. Brown Leghorns...good layers, but more skittish than sparrows and were all about free ranging. Eggs? They probably laid a lot but I rarely found any of them.

So I quit with factory chicks (other than red sex link layers for the production flock) and I have had several nice birds over the years. Buff Orpingtons, Light Brahmas, my current EE x EE and EE x RSL crosses...and by not keeping anything that does not ACT like a domestic chicken raised for utility does, I am coming up with better chickens. In a few generations the stock I have now won't even be discernable in the offspring, but if I choose right I won't be disappointed. Right now I have Millefleur colored, cochin type, feather footed green egg layers. I do like the way they look and am considering concentrating on these birds if they lay well.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

All difference of opinion is attack. People have a right to have an opinion. To have an opinion is to attack other opinions.

Let's say there were two people. One says there is a god, one says there is not. Both opinions are a clash of ideas. They are by their very nature attacks on each other. Whether the people who hold these beliefs personally insult each other or not, the opinions are attacks. One opposing concept naturally attacks the other. Such is life.

People have a right to say whatever they wish. When someone sees something they believe is wrong or damaging, they are obligated to speak out. On that note, I think heavy culling is necessary to maintain health, and that it is unfair to offer people "low-quality" birds that cannot stay healthy on their own. Indiscriminate breeding is damaging and irresponsible and yes, wrong. In other words, people shouldn't do it. I have no problem telling people to spay and neuter their dogs, so I'll also tell people not to hatch eggs unless they're capable. Whether you "respect" that or not is irrelevant. I don't even know what the means to be honest.

I think this topic is getting off-topic and may not be of any use to the original poster anymore.

I'm not saying that you should be selling crappy "stock" to others either. Unhealthy and imperfect are far from the same. To sell someone an unhealthy bird, to breed unhealthy birds is morally wrong. To breed a bird that doesn't have what we have deemed the perfect color or comb to the standards of an organization that has no investment in our animals and belittle someone for that, or for nursing a chick through a weak period, (that may very well grow to be a perfectly strong chick) is as equally wrong.

A difference of opinion is not always an attack on each other. For the record, I am a Christian, and have more than one non Christian friends. Even have a couple that dabbled in Wicca, because they don't hold the same beliefs as I, is not an attack on me. I don't ridicule them for their beliefs and they don't ridicule me for mine.
Sc and I have a thread solely for the purpose of showing that differences in hatching/raising are perfectly normal and perfectly ok, that no one's way is an absolutely right way. We are as different as night and day in our methodology and philosophies. His different of opinion is not an attack on mine, we respect each other's opinions and can even understand them.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

A difference of opinion is not always an attack on each other. For the record, I am a Christian, and have more than one non Christian friends. Even have a couple that dabbled in Wicca, because they don't hold the same beliefs as I, is not an attack on me. I don't ridicule them for their beliefs and they don't ridicule me for mine.

It's not a personal attack, an attack on you personally. But the opinions themselves are opinions on each other. That's what I'm saying. I hang out with people of different beliefs all the time and we get along, however we know our separate beliefs are incompatible. That does not make people who hold those opinions incompatible.

Like, if someone says, "Blue is the best color" and someone else says, "Red is the best color." Well, the people who said that are not attacking each other, but their opinions attack each other. They can't both be THE best color.

By attack I don't mean something bad. It's by differences in opinion we learn from one another.

...but what does this have to do with inbred chickens LOL?

 

[AmyLynn2374]

It's not a personal attack, an attack on you personally. But the opinions themselves are opinions on each other. That's what I'm saying. I hang out with people of different beliefs all the time and we get along, however we know our separate beliefs are incompatible. That does not make people who hold those opinions incompatible.

Like, if someone says, "Blue is the best color" and someone else says, "Red is the best color." Well, the people who said that are not attacking each other, but their opinions attack each other. They can't both be THE best color.

By attack I don't mean something bad. It's by differences in opinion we learn from one another.

...but what does this have to do with inbred chickens LOL?

You brought up the religious theme, I was just going with it.