Ayam Cemani test breeding

[Tumbleweedlynn]

Hi all

I test bred my Ayam Cemani rooster with my CCL, and was surprised by the results. I am no genetics wiz, I am just trying to understand better the genetics my flock have.

By the results of this offspring, can I assume my rooster has two fm? Thanks!


I’ve attached pictures of dad, mom and youngster. The youngster is all black, toes, legs and all.

 

[SourRoses]

I don't know much about AC test breeding. I thought the cross had to be fairly specific?

But I bred my blue ear Mosaic (some fibro from ACs) with my Black Ameraucana, and got super dark chicks... They're half grown and still just as dark.

 

[Tumbleweedlynn]

I don't know much about AC test breeding. I thought the cross had to be fairly specific?

But I bred my blue ear Mosaic (some fibro from ACs) with my Black Ameraucana, and got super dark chicks... They're half grown and still just as dark.


View attachment 3531856

Dang, that’s is no joke! I was reading something on cemanis last night, and from what I understood, the test breed was to determine if the Cemani has one or two copies of fm, and is done with a non-fibro bird.

My “test” was done before I separated my mix hens from my Cemani rooster, so nothing scientific on my part. But I’m still amazed how all this works, and also how Cemani this cross turned out.

Here’s a link to what I read if your interested https://ayamcemani.us/genetics/

 

[NatJ]

from what I understood, the test breed was to determine if the Cemani has one or two copies of fm, and is done with a non-fibro bird....

Here’s a link to what I read if your interested https://ayamcemani.us/genetics/

By the results of this offspring, can I assume my rooster has two fm? Thanks!


I’ve attached pictures of dad, mom and youngster. The youngster is all black, toes, legs and all.

You have one chick that shows fibro. So you know the rooster must have at least one copy of fm (but you could already tell that from looking at him.)

If you got any daughters that did not show fibro, that would prove that the rooster only had one copy of fm. But with chicks that do show fibro, you would need at least 7 of them to have a reasonable certainty about the father having two copies of fm.

With the Cream Legbar hen, any sons would be expected to show light skin, no matter how many fm genes the father has. That is because the Cream Legbar has a dominant gene that supresses pigment in the skin, and is on the Z sex chromosome. So Ayam Cemani rooster with Cream Legbar hen should produce chicks that are skin-color sexlinks (dark-skinned daughters, light-skinned sons.) That's handy if you want to sex the chicks, but if you are trying to test the father's genes it is just a nuisance (because you can only get useful information from one sex of chick, you have to hatch twice as many eggs to learn what you want to know.)

Chicken sex chromosomes are backward of what mammals have. Roosters have ZZ sex chromosomes, hens have ZW. A rooster inherits Z from his father and Z from his mother, and gives one Z to each of his chicks. A hen inherits her Z chromosome from her father, and gives it to her sons. She inherits W from her mother, and gives it to her daughters. The hen determines the sex of the chicks.

 

[Tumbleweedlynn]

You have one chick that shows fibro. So you know the rooster must have at least one copy of fm (but you could already tell that from looking at him.)

If you got any daughters that did not show fibro, that would prove that the rooster only had one copy of fm. But with chicks that do show fibro, you would need at least 7 of them to have a reasonable certainty about the father having two copies of fm.

With the Cream Legbar hen, any sons would be expected to show light skin, no matter how many fm genes the father has. That is because the Cream Legbar has a dominant gene that supresses pigment in the skin, and is on the Z sex chromosome. So Ayam Cemani rooster with Cream Legbar hen should produce chicks that are skin-color sexlinks (dark-skinned daughters, light-skinned sons.) That's handy if you want to sex the chicks, but if you are trying to test the father's genes it is just a nuisance (because you can only get useful information from one sex of chick, you have to hatch twice as many eggs to learn what you want to know.)

Chicken sex chromosomes are backward of what mammals have. Roosters have ZZ sex chromosomes, hens have ZW. A rooster inherits Z from his father and Z from his mother, and gives one Z to each of his chicks. A hen inherits her Z chromosome from her father, and gives it to her sons. She inherits W from her mother, and gives it to her daughters. The hen determines the sex of the chicks.

That was amazing, how do you retain all of that! It is very informative, and very understandable for someone not very scientifically inclined.

Thanks much!

 

[Tumbleweedlynn]

You have one chick that shows fibro. So you know the rooster must have at least one copy of fm (but you could already tell that from looking at him.)

If you got any daughters that did not show fibro, that would prove that the rooster only had one copy of fm. But with chicks that do show fibro, you would need at least 7 of them to have a reasonable certainty about the father having two copies of fm.

With the Cream Legbar hen, any sons would be expected to show light skin, no matter how many fm genes the father has. That is because the Cream Legbar has a dominant gene that supresses pigment in the skin, and is on the Z sex chromosome. So Ayam Cemani rooster with Cream Legbar hen should produce chicks that are skin-color sexlinks (dark-skinned daughters, light-skinned sons.) That's handy if you want to sex the chicks, but if you are trying to test the father's genes it is just a nuisance (because you can only get useful information from one sex of chick, you have to hatch twice as many eggs to learn what you want to know.)

Chicken sex chromosomes are backward of what mammals have. Roosters have ZZ sex chromosomes, hens have ZW. A rooster inherits Z from his father and Z from his mother, and gives one Z to each of his chicks. A hen inherits her Z chromosome from her father, and gives it to her sons. She inherits W from her mother, and gives it to her daughters. The hen determines the sex of the chicks.

@NatJ - I have another question. I have this youngster (tufted head in back) that hatched with the one I initially inquired about. This one has always been a mystery, but I would swear that I only put one blue egg under my broody. But my cl mix girl is the only hen I have like her, so she must be the mom. But again, I would swear it was the only egg that my Cemani would have been the father to, as I brought in another cockerel to take over for the mixes. I was told he was a Blue Leghorn, but I have no idea on that breed, and this cockerel does have one tail feather is black with a green sheen.

So who is the daddy - Cyclone or Lloyd Christmas, and why? Thanks so much!

 

[NatJ]

@NatJ - I have another question. I have this youngster (tufted head in back) that hatched with the one I initially inquired about. This one has always been a mystery, but I would swear that I only put one blue egg under my broody. But my cl mix girl is the only hen I have like her, so she must be the mom. But again, I would swear it was the only egg that my Cemani would have been the father to, as I brought in another cockerel to take over for the mixes. I was told he was a Blue Leghorn, but I have no idea on that breed, and this cockerel does have one tail feather is black with a green sheen.

The mystery youngster shoud have at least one parent with a crest or tuft. It neither rooster has that trait, and there are no other roosters, then it must have a crested mother.

Do you have any crested hens other than the Legbar? If yes, one of them is probably the mother.

I think the non-Cemani rooster is probably the father of the mystery chick, if you do not have any other roosters available. That guess is because the mystery chick has so much gold in the neck feathers, rather than being all black. I would expect entirely black feathers if the Ayam Cemani was the father.

 

[Tumbleweedlynn]

The mystery youngster shoud have at least one parent with a crest or tuft. It neither rooster has that trait, and there are no other roosters, then it must have a crested mother.

Do you have any crested hens other than the Legbar? If yes, one of them is probably the mother.

I think the non-Cemani rooster is probably the father of the mystery chick, if you do not have any other roosters available. That guess is because the mystery chick has so much gold in the neck feathers, rather than being all black. I would expect entirely black feathers if the Ayam Cemani was the father.

Thank you so much! The mom is the only cl I have, the black on the body was throwing me off considering the Legbar doesn’t really have black, and neither did the mom. I’ll definitely be coming back to you with more questions, but thank you a again

 

[nicalandia]

Hi all

I test bred my Ayam Cemani rooster with my CCL, and was surprised by the results. I am no genetics wiz, I am just trying to understand better the genetics my flock have.

By the results of this offspring, can I assume my rooster has two fm? Thanks!


I’ve attached pictures of dad, mom and youngster. The youngster is all black, toes, legs and all.View attachment 3531335View attachment 3531338View attachment 3531342View attachment 3531343View attachment 3531345

One sample is too small of a sample to determine if the rooster carries one or two copies of Fibromelanosis. Legbars are about the best breed to test breed Cemani because they carry Sex linked Dermal Inhibitor and Sex linked Barring(dermal and epidermal inhibitor).

Males will be Barred with either white skin or mottled skin with dark and white patches, shanks will be either mottled or dark,.

Females will be all black like the hen pictured

 

[Tumbleweedlynn]

One sample is too small of a sample to determine if the rooster carries one or two copies of Fibromelanosis. Legbars are about the best breed to test breed Cemani because they carry Sex linked Dermal Inhibitor and Sex linked Barring(dermal and epidermal inhibitor).

Males will be Barred with either white skin or mottled skin with dark and white patches, shanks will be either mottled or dark,.

Females will be all black like the hen pictured

Thank you, great information