Ayam Cemani

[Naamahbengals]

For example - here is a photo of a pet quality Silkie roo. You can see his deep red wattles and brown leakage. In the lower saturation photo, they look about the same color as your Cemani pic - but you can still see that the background has brown dirt, etc. It just looks washed out, same as your pic. Don't worry about it if it was just a bad photo - like I said above, just upload a natural sunlight photo.

 

[Ayam Cemani]

I have to ask, have you seen an American standard yet? I don't know why you have to keep bashing the ones of us that do have these birds that may have some red in their combs and wattles. It's not like we can just imports these birds like we would like to. You keep wanting to complain about the birds that are in the US, but are you doing anything to get any better bloodlines into the US? Like it has been said over and over, there are breeders in the US that are working our butts off to improve what bloodlines that are here. I for one am going to work my butt off to get them to where they need to be, I plan on culling the heck out of mine this year and only keep the blackish ones and breed them back to the blackish one, and then do it all over again and again. It may take a few years and then again it may longer, but we are trying to do the best that we can with what bloodlines that are here. Yes there will be some people in the US that will just get them to make fast buck or two, but people just need to do their homework and find the breeders that are doing their jobs to improve them. But until better bloodlines can be brought in, we have to work with what we have. And these people that want to keep complaining about the birds here, need to import them since they think it is so easy and cheap and see where it gets them.

Mr Randy2010:
You're right and very good, someone should come out to stop Chambertin this unfair remarks , so may be he just saw some chickens only, but there are a lot of very good ayam cemani he did not see, because of these very good quality ayam cemani holders are reluctant to share other people and does not sell its eggs only his relatives and friends to see that they think is so rare and precious pet, every year I buy chicken from elsewhere to join My flock, but often encounter " not for sale now ", or the quality of your chicken better than me, I can not sell to you, but about "trade", he has not, because he did not want others to have a good quality chicken,
Here is my personal opinion:
By individuals spend $ 5,000 to buy one pair very good quality ayam cemani, not all people have the ability, but also the risk that if the ten people together to raise funds to buy one pair very good quality ayam cemani, and member must provide one the best hen from member`s flock, so total have 11 hens, and then produce eggs by the artificial insemination method, so each member will have 11 hatching eggs /10 days, there will be a lot of very good quality ayam cemani offspring a year later .
Mr Randy , we hope you do it .

 

[Randy2010]

Ayam Cemani. Thanks.
My main point to him and everyone one else is that we have a very limited gene pool here which does have their flaws. But besides him and others trying to help us and give us information and ideals how to fix these issues. It is just one bash after another as if we all are out to sell and do everyone wrong. I have people sending me messages all the time and if they would step up and be honest there isn't one that I haven't told them about the flaws my birds have and that I plan on improving on. We all are not out to do people wrong. I have even gave a few away to help others that have this breed. I just don't know why we can't work together to get this breed where it needs to be besides putting everyone downs along with their birds. It is very hard and very costly right now to get this breed imported into the US even if you find a place to import from that is legal to do so then your not even 100% Guaranteed that they will be any better than what is already here.

 

[Randy2010]

I do want to thank Toni-Marie for advise that she has given me over the months to help improve this Breed. And I just hope others will work together as well when they are able to get this wonderful breed of chicken.

 

[Chambertin]

I'm not trying to "bash your efforts" I'm telling you some simple facts about the birds that no one wants to hear.
1. The pollution of genetics and the difficulty of removing it is exactly what makes a real Ayam Cemani (and other sustainable fibro birds) so precious. These are not cull to perfect birds like you are used to as the many years of experience has shown when they still produce blotchy chicks.
2. There are plenty of other names to pick that absolutely match what kind of birds and genetics you do have, please use one of them.
3. The "new standard" will destroy any history and truth to the genetic line in the future.
4. The bloodlines here in the US may be beautiful, and unique but has anyone ever been to Asia to see what a real fibro-melanistic bird and breeding program results in?

If you want a new standard so be it, just give it a fitting new name also.

As people have said "just importing from Asia wont fix the problem" because if the US bloodline is so polluted then it will take generations of breeders to track and select which birds are passing on defective fibro genes and which are strong. Unless someone wants to pay for DNA testing.
Oh and hard culling leads to many other problems down the line as the genetic lines thin out so much there's almost nothing else left. Just look at the specialty dog market.

I had birds of near Ayam Cemani fibro melanistic quality for a couple years, and that was long enough to discover what a real rare treat these kinds of birds are. They should be treasured and understood instead or re-written and culled into oblivion. I accepted that what I had was inferior, and many specimens of Ayam Cemani might occasionally produce some mulberry tones, but I have NEVER seen a fibro strong bird have a red patch of skin, or a white chick unless it was recently (within 2 or 3 generations) mixed with a non fibro breed.
In other words if you get white chicks then one of the parents is not a true line of fibro breed, its a lucky mix and most likely cant pass on the genes properly.
A strong fibro breed will overwrite a certain amount of the visual characteristics, but can not pass those on to the next generations reliably. In a word, they are a dead end breeding line.

I'm not trying to stop people from trying. I'm not saying you cant have a nice new standard. I'm saying if you make the standard to what can be found around today, then tomorrow will never result in a real and sustainable breed. Lets face it if you have to kill half the clutch for a breed defining trait, then the parents are not of that breed.
Good luck to the programs, but you have better be in it for the LONG haul if you're starting from mixed clutch producing parents.

Whatever though, I'm sure soon enough you'll have your "New Standard" and can be happy culling till the garbage can is full to try and keep it.

 

[cjwaldon]

Please clarify how are we to improve fibro melanistic qualities if we shouldn't "cull to perfect birds"? It seems to me if I have birds possessing any fibro qualities that pairing imperfect birds together should occasionally by accident produce a specimen worth keeping and breeding. Once I get those random specimens worth breeding than I have something better to work with. We have to start somewhere and work with what we have. But it sounds like you are suggesting that we don't cull for improvements? If we don't cull or otherwise select only the best for breeding, then we're hoping that we will randomly get the occasional chick that possesses the qualities I'm looking for, and it very well may take many generations to achieve our goals, but most likely we will never have anything better than a flock of somewhat fibro melanistic birds since we never remove those not worthy of breeding. Please teach me how to improve if I don't cull? I'm pretty sure the Ayam Cemani in Indonesia didn't happen by accident. I would guess if you tracked their lineage back far enough you'd find that imperfect specimens were the foundation of the breed.

 

[Randy2010]

I'm only culling birds that may show any color but black on them, from their combs, waddles, tongues and feathers. So I'm not sure how that is going to hurt the breed when all I'm culling hard for it to get them as black as I can, from head to toe. And if it does take me years to do this, then it is my money and my time and no one else's. I'm not trying to change the size, shape or anything else on the bird.

 

[Oldhound]

There are some interesting articles on Feathersite by a fellow from the Netherlands. He imparts some first hand experience from his visits to Indonesia , regarding the history of the chickens and breeding techniques.

 

[Ayam Cemani]

How to improve fibro melanistic qualities on your breeds ?

I have a special research and experience,
if someone is willing to provide hatching eggs or fertilized eggs as research, i will pay you $ 200 for shipping fee,
Three years later, the conclusion will free deliver to you.
If you are interested in participating or joining the plan, please Contact me at:

http://ayamcemaniusa.webs.com/

 

[blackbirds13]

This is an ebay ad that features Wolfwhyte's birds.
This is for white egg layers while his thread Ayam Cemanis here on BYC is for his pure more brown laying Cemani. The egg color looks very much like those from Cemani Farms.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-White-she...174?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7d4f9796