Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[redbudchix]

Thanks Trisha. I figured she was a splash. But when it was described with yellow feathers at times...it had me wondering. Both her parents are blue. With two roosters, one blue and one black...I got some black pullets, blues, and one splash. Genetics is interesting and confusing, that's for sure!

 

[Alexandra33]

My deepest apologies if I'm intruding, but I've got a question for you Barnevelder connoisseurs. Early on in the year, I received an order of 16 chicks, one of which was supposed to be a Barnevelder. But as Enya began to feather out, I noticed that she didn't sport the typical Barnevelder double lacing, and was unusually red in coloration. I have been told that she is a Partridge Rock, however, I still am skeptical. Not only does she look nothing like my own Partridge Rock, but her egg hue is completely unique when compared to all the Rocks', and her comb and wattles are much smaller. Has a defect in appearance such as this been known to occur, or is she indeed a Partridge Rock?



-Alex

 

[Double Laced]

My deepest apologies if I'm intruding, but I've got a question for you Barnevelder connoisseurs. Early on in the year, I received an order of 16 chicks, one of which was supposed to be a Barnevelder. But as Enya began to feather out, I noticed that she didn't sport the typical Barnevelder double lacing, and was unusually red in coloration. I have been told that she is a Partridge Rock, however, I still am skeptical. Not only does she look nothing like my own Partridge Rock, but her egg hue is completely unique when compared to all the Rocks', and her comb and wattles are much smaller. Has a defect in appearance such as this been known to occur, or is she indeed a Partridge Rock?



-Alex

nice looking bird though.

The lacing looks fine but it is probably the result of an outcrossing to either a welsummer or a wyandotte. Dark eggs then welsummer, cream, pink or very light brown eggs then wyandotte. It's is impossible to know exactly what bird has crept in or been substituted by the breeder for whatever purpose.

May just be the result of a chance mating of a hen that escaped from a breeding pen.

Some defect do occur spontaneously but if the egg colour is different then it i probably the result of an outcrossing

The barnevelder has it's origins in the north of Europe and is a good cold weather bird, the small or fine comb is a desirable trait in the UK type and even more so in the continental barnevelder. A large comb will be marked down. The US and UK barnevelders do differ. the US one has a much lighter undercolour amongst other things i have noticed

 

[Double Laced]

Of course to improve egg colour.
That's the way, which the best Welsummer breeder in UK have done it over decades, even if they don't admit it in the UK Welsummer Club.
I found several literature sources, which proves, that the winner of egg contests in UK have used Marans to improve egg colour in Welsummer, some Barnevelder breeder aswell.
My experience is, that the shank color can be fixed in F2 and F4 has smooth shanks

This has not been my experience with white and yellow legs .

I'm sure breeders do everything they can to produce deep brown eggs, most brown eggs bird breeders I know are more fanatical than most!

As for the feathering on the shank it is very complicated as there are actually 3 genes that control the feathering, 1 is completely recessive and the others, Pti-1 and Pti-2 are incompletely dominant. to further complicate shank feathering there is also a shank feather inhibitor genes which is co-dominant.

My advice remains the same, don't use a feathered leg bird X'ed with a non feathered leg type unless you really, really have to!

 

[Redcap]

Marans are based on Pti-1L(only!), Id, W

Barnevelder have Id, w+

It is not so complicate to create clean shanks (as proven already by Lord Greenway (the creator of english Marans), in five Years, if You have only to deal with Pti-1L!

There are many clean shanked varieties in breeds, which are based on Barbu d'Uccle, but they managed it aswell, even if they had to deal with the selection against Pti-3 and Vulture Hocks (v)


PS: With Pti-1B (Brahma) would it be more difficult. Pti-1B is dominant over Pti-1L (Langshan).


So You have to deal with 2 genes in contrary to at least 13 egg shell genes, who noone knows how they are really controlled.
In Germany and the Netherlands the show breeder crossed in Wyandottes in Barnevelder and Leghorns in Welsummer and destroyed by this way, the egg shell colour.
This fault can't be recovered probably for many decades.

 

[Redcap]

My deepest apologies if I'm intruding, but I've got a question for you Barnevelder connoisseurs. Early on in the year, I received an order of 16 chicks, one of which was supposed to be a Barnevelder. But as Enya began to feather out, I noticed that she didn't sport the typical Barnevelder double lacing, and was unusually red in coloration. I have been told that she is a Partridge Rock

Actually it is a pure Partridge Rock. There is no doubt with this perfect lacing and the columbia-patterned neck.

 

[Alexandra33]

@Double Laced , in fact I have mistaken Enya for my Welsummer from afar. She lays a darker egg with a purplish/dusty rose tinge, so it doesn't sound like she would have any Wyandotte in her background. Thank you for the valuable input!

@Redcap , quite interesting! Thank you. I'll be honest that I've never heard the term "pure" applied to Partridge Rocks, so that's nice bit of information that I have gained today.

I guess what had me so confused was mainly the fact that my Partridge Rock, Scarlett, bears no resemblance to Enya. Perhaps it could be because her lacing doesn't appear to be as nice quality in comparison?

By the way, I promise my birds aren't permanently in the coop. It's just that sometimes I find it easier to photograph them with they are in an enclosed space.
-Alex

 

[Redcap]

Just compare, these are Partridge Plymouth Rocks of a show breeder from Germany

 

[THeelChickinKY]

@comster
I hatched out 22 Barnevelders this spring and while the buff/splash was obviously different at hatch, the single blue we got looked just like the blacks until he was mostly feathered. Maybe more experienced Barnie breeders would be able to tell more quickly, and maybe I will next time, but we were at least 6 weeks in before we could tell the difference between the blue and the black. Good luck!

 

[Alexandra33]

Just compare, these are Partridge Plymouth Rocks of a show breeder from Germany

The face and comb of the hen do indeed remind me of Enya's. Very pretty! Thank you for such helpful information.

-Alex