Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[Happy Chooks]

I've never had a barnevelder just drop dead. IMO, they are not that fragile.

It's been discussed that they can be more sensitive to Mareks, but I haven't had it in my flock.

 

[bonnylass79]

Well, I did it!  I started at the beginning and read the whole thread.  I finally got through it all.  There sure were a lot of ups and downs, but I learned a whole lot.  I recently acquired some hatching eggs from eBay and was told they originated from vB and KC lines.  Granted, the person selling them had a closed flock for several years and kept crossing the birds for improvement, this probably means it is now more like their own line and a lot less like vB or KC, but at least that means they started off with something decent.  At least I hope.  I ended up with 5 chicks and they all have the dark brown coloring and no visible deformities.  The Marans I got from the same person ended up with fused toes!  I had not heard of this issue prior to this, so I am a bit disappointed in the results with them. 

That being said, I find it interesting that you mention, Donna, that you raise them separately.  I currently have 5 chicks of each breed being brooded together, but I will definitely watch them closely and take that into consideration as they grow.  The Marans are already feathering out much faster than the Barnies, which I have heard Barnevelders do like to take their sweet time. 

I still haven't gotten these guys outside on some dirt yet (they are just 1 week old). I typically have gotten chicks outside for short periods as young as possible, but I have been worried about the Barnevelders from all the reports I have read about them dropping dead with no warning.  I currently have a mixed flock of adult birds and some 9 week olds.  I would hate to expose the new youngsters to something that would have dire results, but at the same time I have heard that getting them exposure in small amounts at a young age can actually help to strengthen their immune systems.  So... I guess the worrier in me has just been taking over. 

Any suggestions on this?  Should I just put their safe pen out in an area apart from the run?  Should I go ahead and put them in the safe pen right inside the run?  I really shouldn't be putting so much thought into this, but I don't want to risk losing these little guys.  Are they really as fragile as I have read in discussions here?

Deformities can also happen because the eggs are shaken during shipping. It isn't necessarily a genetic issue.

I have had some issues with sudden death in the Barnies. Some bloodlines are better than others. I don't breed before mine are 12 months old to try to weed out poor genetics. I also feed Brewers Yeast with Garlic and put Big Ole Bird probiotics in their water. It gives them vitamins and helps boost their immune systems. Seems to be helping so far.

 

[ChellFeesh]

I am glad to hear that, Happy Chooks. I need to just treat them as I've treated all the others, I suppose, and just see what happens.

Pardon my ignorance, bonnylass, but what exactly do you mean by "eggs shaken during hatching." By that do you mean it can happen often with shipped eggs? Or that the eggs were bounced around by the other hatching chicks? Or that I knocked my incubator on the floor during incubating? lol

I posted pictures of the feet of the Marans chicks in the Marans thread, but I didn't get much of a response about it. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/383387/marans-thread-breed-discussion-pictures-are-welcome/48500
It was like the toes were connected by a webbing. I had initially thought it was error with incubation because I know crooked toes can result with fluctuation in temperatures during hatching. I have a Brinsea that I monitored with 2 thermometers and hygrometer and things stayed pretty stable. That particular hatch included Marans, Barnevelders, and Barred Rocks and the Marans were the only ones with any kind of issue. The seller actually stated in her auction that fused toes could occur in 1% of the hatches. "It just happens," she said. I figured, well 1% were pretty low odds and it wouldn't happen for me and then I ended up with 3 out of 5 chicks with toes fused. I know that this isn't a Marans thread, but I was just curious what you meant. If this is an issue I may have caused and can prevent, I'd like to learn how to correct it.

 

[bumpershoot]

Hey ChellFeesh,

Bonnylass was referring to eggs shook during shipping. Shipping is hard on eggs and can really mess the babies up. It's still one of the few easy ways to get different lines across the country.

I have heard about Marans having webbed feet but I don't recall the reason. It does seem to happen to them often enough to comment on it, but Barnies don't seem to have the same problem more than any other breed.

As far as hardiness goes, my last flock of Barnies free ranged a lot with any number of other breeds. They did well and were actually the first to let me know that a coyote was around. The group I have will probably hand with some Marans until they are of breeding age, so if I see problems amongst them I will be sure to comment. Also, I will add that several years ago I did not have a closed flock, as I will now, and did not see any Mareks. Doesn't mean it wasn't there but I did not see it. My birds also free ranged with my turkeys headed for the thanksgiving table which some think might help with immunity if exposed when a day or two old.

 

[bonnylass79]

Pardon my ignorance, bonnylass, but what exactly do you mean by "eggs shaken during hatching."  By that do you mean it can happen often with shipped eggs?  Or that the eggs were bounced around by the other hatching chicks?  Or that I knocked my incubator on the floor during incubating? lol 

I'm sorry. That was actually a typo. I meant during shipping. You can cut the webbing between the toes and they will develop naturally. There are threads about how to do it.

 

[ChellFeesh]

I did actually perform "surgery" with manicure scissors to separate the webbing. They hatched out of nice, dark eggs, so I just planned to use them for egg layers until they have outlived their usefulness. Thanks for your input!

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Well, I did it! I started at the beginning and read the whole thread. I finally got through it all. There sure were a lot of ups and downs, but I learned a whole lot. I recently acquired some hatching eggs from eBay and was told they originated from vB and KC lines. Granted, the person selling them had a closed flock for several years and kept crossing the birds for improvement, this probably means it is now more like their own line and a lot less like vB or KC, but at least that means they started off with something decent. At least I hope. I ended up with 5 chicks and they all have the dark brown coloring and no visible deformities. The Marans I got from the same person ended up with fused toes! I had not heard of this issue prior to this, so I am a bit disappointed in the results with them.

That being said, I find it interesting that you mention, Donna, that you raise them separately. I currently have 5 chicks of each breed being brooded together, but I will definitely watch them closely and take that into consideration as they grow. The Marans are already feathering out much faster than the Barnies, which I have heard Barnevelders do like to take their sweet time.

I still haven't gotten these guys outside on some dirt yet (they are just 1 week old). I typically have gotten chicks outside for short periods as young as possible, but I have been worried about the Barnevelders from all the reports I have read about them dropping dead with no warning. I currently have a mixed flock of adult birds and some 9 week olds. I would hate to expose the new youngsters to something that would have dire results, but at the same time I have heard that getting them exposure in small amounts at a young age can actually help to strengthen their immune systems. So... I guess the worrier in me has just been taking over.

Any suggestions on this? Should I just put their safe pen out in an area apart from the run? Should I go ahead and put them in the safe pen right inside the run? I really shouldn't be putting so much thought into this, but I don't want to risk losing these little guys. Are they really as fragile as I have read in discussions here?

Hi Chell

Welcome to the thread, You are committed to read all of this in such a short time.

I wish you the best with your birds and you will get some good advice here but also lots of opinion. I see others have had a range of experiences with Black coper marans and with Barnevelders.

I have had both breeds for five years and run them together and they get along fine. They lay about the same for me. The Barnie roos feather out slower but not the pullets. They are all chickens and act like hickens. The Barnevelders are not faint creatures and are as hardy as my other birds. I have had then drop dead but I have had other chickens drop dead to. None of them live for ever. My older barnie hens are four still healthy.

Johan did us all a favor bringing Barnies to USA and selling hatching eggs all around the country. I still have a line of pure Johan, my oldest Barnie hen is pure Johan from the foundation birds I got from eggs I bought from Johan. We owe him gratitude. Now its up to us to keep the breed healthy. I know some people think it becomes "your" line after you have bred it for a while, ut I will always consider these birds to be Johan line even as I make selections and they are hard to tell apart from my own line which includes crosses with other lines. That's how I think of it. Others have there opinions, no one is right, no one is wrong.

I was sorry to hear the rest of his birds were killed by critters. Thanks Donna for taking in the last of the survivor hens. Its a good line and worth keeping going.
person

My advice to you is to not let the worrier in you take over. The chickens are strong and survive many mistakes of their keepers. They don't need to be babied. Do your best and have fun with them.
Take others advice with a grain of salt. Having said that here is some advice.... One thing I would look for in your young stock, something I deal with almost every year is coccidiosis. Medicated chick starter helps them fight this until they are older and resistant. But when they start getting other feeds like greens and grain and what ever they pickup then it could happen they fall behind in the correct dose of amprolium, When they show the signs like being listless and puffy and sitting in the corner with half closed eyes then I treat water with CORID

(amprolium). They bounce back quickly after treatment, keep it in the water for five days or until they get better. I admittedly sometimes have my chicks crowded a little too much. Coccidiosis is a stark reminder for me to move them along out to the grower pens.

Good luck with your flock.

Andy

 

[sherpagirl]

Hi Chell

Welcome to the thread, You are committed to read all of this in such a short time.

I wish you the best with your birds and you will get some good advice here but also lots of opinion. I see others have had a range of experiences with Black coper marans and with Barnevelders.

I have had both breeds for five years and run them together and they get along fine. They lay about the same for me. The Barnie roos feather out slower but not the pullets. They are all chickens and act like hickens. The Barnevelders are not faint creatures and are as hardy as my other birds. I have had then drop dead but I have had other chickens drop dead to. None of them live for ever. My older barnie hens are four still healthy.

Johan did us all a favor bringing Barnies to USA and selling hatching eggs all around the country. I still have a line of pure Johan, my oldest Barnie hen is pure Johan from the foundation birds I got from eggs I bought from Johan. We owe him gratitude. Now its up to us to keep the breed healthy. I know some people think it becomes "your" line after you have bred it for a while, ut I will always consider these birds to be Johan line even as I make selections and they are hard to tell apart from my own line which includes crosses with other lines. That's how I think of it. Others have there opinions, no one is right, no one is wrong.

I was sorry to hear the rest of his birds were killed by critters. Thanks Donna for taking in the last of the survivor hens. Its a good line and worth keeping going.
person

My advice to you is to not let the worrier in you take over. The chickens are strong and survive many mistakes of their keepers. They don't need to be babied. Do your best and have fun with them.
Take others advice with a grain of salt. Having said that here is some advice.... One thing I would look for in your young stock, something I deal with almost every year is coccidiosis. Medicated chick starter helps them fight this until they are older and resistant. But when they start getting other feeds like greens and grain and what ever they pickup then it could happen they fall behind in the correct dose of amprolium, When they show the signs like being listless and puffy and sitting in the corner with half closed eyes then I treat water with CORID

(amprolium). They bounce back quickly after treatment, keep it in the water for five days or until they get better. I admittedly sometimes have my chicks crowded a little too much. Coccidiosis is a stark reminder for me to move them along out to the grower pens.

Good luck with your flock.

Andy

Ya, you're right Andy, the Barnies and the Marans can live together but I guess what I meant to say was that I like to keep them separate because I like to see the personality differences in the two flocks, the chickens probably don't care, lol.

I too have my first two Johan Barnie hens and one KC hen, and 3 out of 4 of the vBs are living with a friend. They are all 5 this year! My roosters have not faired as well, but I think that might be due to the life of a rooster, it's more hazardous!

 

[DiamondDust]

Hi Chell

Welcome to the thread,  You are committed to read all of this in such a short time.

I wish you the best with your birds and you will get some good advice here but also lots of opinion.   I see others have had a range of experiences with Black coper marans and with Barnevelders. 

I have had both breeds for five years and run them together and they get along fine.  They lay about the same for me.  The Barnie roos feather out slower but not the pullets. They are all chickens and act like hickens. The Barnevelders are not faint creatures and are as hardy as my other birds.  I have had then drop dead but I have had other chickens drop dead to.  None of them live for ever.  My older barnie hens are four still healthy.

Johan did us all a favor bringing Barnies to USA and selling hatching eggs all around the country.  I still have a line of pure Johan, my oldest Barnie hen is pure Johan from the foundation birds I got from eggs I bought from Johan.  We owe him gratitude.  Now its up to us to keep the breed healthy.   I know some people think it becomes "your" line after you have bred it for a while, ut I will always consider these birds to be Johan line even as I make selections and they are hard to tell apart from my own line which includes crosses with other lines.  That's how I think of it.  Others have there opinions, no one is right, no one is wrong.

I was sorry to hear the rest of his birds were killed by critters.  Thanks Donna for taking in the last of the survivor hens.  Its a good line and worth keeping going.
person

My advice to you is to not let the worrier in you take over.  The chickens are strong and survive many mistakes of their keepers.  They don't need to be babied.  Do your best and have fun with them.
Take others advice with a grain of salt. Having said that here is some advice.... One thing I would look for in your young stock, something I deal with almost every year is coccidiosis.  Medicated chick starter helps them fight this until they are older and resistant.  But when they start getting other feeds like greens and grain and what ever they pickup then it could happen they fall behind in the correct dose of amprolium,   When they show the signs like being listless and puffy and sitting in the corner with half closed eyes then I treat water with CORID

(amprolium).   They bounce back quickly after treatment,  keep it in the water for five days or until they get better.    I admittedly sometimes have my chicks crowded a little too much.  Coccidiosis is a stark reminder for me to move them along out to the grower pens.
    
Good luck with your flock.

Andy

Hi Andy,
I see that you are from the Pacific northwest too...do you show your Barnies? I have started showing this year but rarely see others at the shows. Corvallis is a bit far for me and since the show in Vancouver was canceled I couldn't go to that one. I'd love to meet up with other breeders from around here at the shows.

DD

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Hi Andy,
I see that you are from the Pacific northwest too...do you show your Barnies? I have started showing this year but rarely see others at the shows. Corvallis is a bit far for me and since the show in Vancouver was canceled I couldn't go to that one. I'd love to meet up with other breeders from around here at the shows.

DD

Hi DD

I saw your post about your Barnevelder winning best Continental at the Washington show. Congratulations and I think she is nice looking. What is her background?

We (my boys and I) have shown our Barnies and other birds in Washington and Oregon shows in the past. Mainly the PNPA shows in Stevenson and Salem, as well as at the County Fair in Corvallis. Our experience has been the same as yours where we are the only Barnies in the show. The shows are fun but a large commitment of time for the whole family and with the boys being more interested in soccer and karate and at their age we have not been to the shows in the last year. They have shown interest in showing some birds at our county fair in August so we are preparing for that.

Honestly the risk of disease at the shows is getting to be more than I want to deal with and because of that I hesitate to bring birds to shows unless I want to sell them. It is a calculated risk and they threat of my flock picking up some nasty at a poultry show has dampened my enthusiasm for showing.

Andy