Beltsville Small White Turkey

[JohnD]

Poult Boy,
They are very close. The main difference I can tell is origin of the breed. The weights are different but a 3-4 lb difference could be hard to tell if you throw in variables like environment, vitality, etc. The Midgets were also bred to produce more eggs, as I have no Midgets I don’t know what more eggs equal? I can say my BSW are no egg factory.

The Midget White toms weight about 14 lbs and hens 8 lbs at 20 wks.
Best I could find on "mature" weight toms 20 lbs and hens 12 lbs
They were bred from commercial whites and Royal Palm’s in the 60s.

The BSW toms weight about 23 lbs and hens 13 lbs. (Mature weight). Under one year of age or “young” toms are 17 lbs and hens at 10 lbs.
They come from the genetics of White Holland, White Austrian, Narragansett, Bronze, and Wild, breeding began in the 1930s

In contrast the White Holland weight for mature toms is 36 lbs and hens 20 lbs. Young toms 25 and hens 16 lbs

Don’t know if this helped or made things worse? I would be careful having both breeds that they don’t “commingle”. Good luck with both they are a lot of fun.

 

[poult boy]

Thanks,
One more question, body shape. My Midgets are pretty slender, more like a wild turkey body style. Are your Beltsville board breasted like a small version of the larger broad breasted breeds? I know, I should just be patient. I am going to find out myself in a few months, but just an excited curiosity like a kid before Christmas morning.

 

[JohnD]

Understand, these birds grow up and then grow out. My toms are quite wide.

 

[Extra Java]

I have six Beltsville. I am positive they are up to standard and pure. They came from Duane Urch line out of Owatonna, MN. I started with two pairs, had three clutches last summer, hen was a great brooder but not the best mom. Young! and ended up hatching out 27, with 23 to adulthood. I too love these birds. Very friendly, so far very hardy to the extreme weather we have been having in Colorado. I originally got them from bug and snake control and didn't see a snake one last summer and not sure if it was the drought or they did their jobs. Great birds.

Hate to say it but as per Dr. Brian Tibbot, Urch does NOT sell authentic Beltsville Whites. They desperately need preservation. Jerry Poole or user slc above would be your BEST source.

 

[Celie]

Welcome and I hope you find some. I too raise turkeys becasue my grandfather did. Of course he did them in much larger quantities than I. There are several hatcheries that sell them, but like you I don't know that I would want that many.

And if there is anyone that wants to get rid of some eggs my way I would take them in a heart beat. I've been looking for some for my two broody BBW's.

Hi, I just thought I would suggest you use your Holland Tom over your BBW, because Beltsvilles seem too small to mate with the really large Giant BBWs. They are so close in size to your Midgets, that they APA includes them in the same class. Ann, Please let me know how it works out for you next spring. The midgets I got from you are filling out nicely, Thanks!

Poult Boy,
They are very close. The main difference I can tell is origin of the breed. The weights are different but a 3-4 lb difference could be hard to tell if you throw in variables like environment, vitality, etc. The Midgets were also bred to produce more eggs, as I have no Midgets I don’t know what more eggs equal? I can say my BSW are no egg factory.

The Midget White toms weight about 14 lbs and hens 8 lbs at 20 wks.
Best I could find on "mature" weight toms 20 lbs and hens 12 lbs
They were bred from commercial whites and Royal Palm’s in the 60s.

The BSW toms weight about 23 lbs and hens 13 lbs. (Mature weight). Under one year of age or “young” toms are 17 lbs and hens at 10 lbs.
They come from the genetics of White Holland, White Austrian, Narragansett, Bronze, and Wild, breeding began in the 1930s

In contrast the White Holland weight for mature toms is 36 lbs and hens 20 lbs. Young toms 25 and hens 16 lbs

Don’t know if this helped or made things worse? I would be careful having both breeds that they don’t “commingle”. Good luck with both they are a lot of fun.

What breed is a commercial white? Midgets are suppose to be very small with toms only reaching a mature weight of 12 pounds or so, about the size of a large rooster. I thought Beltsville were a little bigger, about 20# for toms at maturity? As far as Hollands, they exceed 40+++ pounds at full maturity and dress out at 30++ pounds. I have over 40 Hollands and have raised them for 3 years now and last Thanksgiving harvested 2 for the table, one @ 34#s and 1 @ 35# after processing. They both had large breasts, not quite double breasted, but close. The commercial BBW sold in supermarkets, were bred from Hollands, which were the commercially produced breed until the BBWs were developed in 1935. Here's a picture of the 2 we processed for Thanksgiving :

Thanks,
One more question, body shape. My Midgets are pretty slender, more like a wild turkey body style. Are your Beltsville board breasted like a small version of the larger broad breasted breeds? I know, I should just be patient. I am going to find out myself in a few months, but just an excited curiosity like a kid before Christmas morning.

?????????

I know Hollands are and thought Midgets were too. Heritage turkeys take time to grow their frame, as much as 9 months and the rest of the time to full mature weight, they are putting on meat and developing better flavor!

Understand, these birds grow up and then grow out. My toms are quite wide.

All Heritage turkeys do.

 

[ChickDoc]

Hello All,

Re.: True Beltsville Small White Turkeys

I only check this site once a year. Glad to see a lot of recent interest in the BSW. Spotted my name a few times.
I'll keep this short and avoid my long rant and smearing people too much, tho many were misinformed victims themselves.

There are true Beltsvilles out there, many now in hands of home growers.
I owned 2 of the 3 strains up until 9 years ago. The Albertsen line via Jerry Poole. And Obtained Ames stock from the USDA , which was mostly a closed flock.

The Beltsville turkeys/eggs listed by McMurray and at least one other hatchery dating back ~20 years, are contract/drop shipped by Urch.
However these are not true Beltsviles, but rather Midget Whites they and some others (Sand Hill too) obtained from the U. of Wisconsin-Madison during a periodical sell-off at their Ag. station.
Unless these hatcheries replaced with real stock within the past 10 years, they are still MWs and not BSWs!

According to UW Prof. Wentworth, the MW does not have any BSW blood in them, and vice-versa.
The MW contains a lot of Palm blood, which contributes to its petite size and head shape.
According to Frank Reece Jr, only the palm and mw have this type of head shape. All other turkeys, including the BSW have the more common head shape.

The MW became more famous in its own right and known to turkey fanciers, not when UW first sold them, but a few years later.
Paula of NM had one of the earliest MW flocks and distributed them to Privett and sold under the MW name.
However, I do not believe there are any large hatcheries selling true BSWs yet.

The reason those MWs being call BSWs back then... I best not indicate in this forum.
But it still causes a serious problem today....

I hope this made things clearer.

Best Wishes,

BT

Dr. Brian Tibbot, Ph.D.
Science Teacher, Northern Calif.
former Research Scientist USDA-ARS Madison WI and Albany CA

Black skin Chickens, American Blue Rabbits

 

[sandspoultry]

Hello All,

Re.: True Beltsville Small White Turkeys

I only check this site once a year. Glad to see a lot of recent interest in the BSW. Spotted my name a few times.
I'll keep this short and avoid my long rant and smearing people too much, tho many were misinformed victims themselves.

There are true Beltsvilles out there, many now in hands of home growers.
I owned 2 of the 3 strains up until 9 years ago. The Albertsen line via Jerry Poole. And Obtained Ames stock from the USDA , which was mostly a closed flock.

The Beltsville turkeys/eggs listed by McMurray and at least one other hatchery dating back ~20 years, are contract/drop shipped by Urch.
However these are not true Beltsviles, but rather Midget Whites they and some others (Sand Hill too) obtained from the U. of Wisconsin-Madison during a periodical sell-off at their Ag. station.
Unless these hatcheries replaced with real stock within the past 10 years, they are still MWs and not BSWs!

According to UW Prof. Wentworth, the MW does not have any BSW blood in them, and vice-versa.
The MW contains a lot of Palm blood, which contributes to its petite size and head shape.
According to Frank Reece Jr, only the palm and mw have this type of head shape. All other turkeys, including the BSW have the more common head shape.

The MW became more famous in its own right and known to turkey fanciers, not when UW first sold them, but a few years later.
Paula of NM had one of the earliest MW flocks and distributed them to Privett and sold under the MW name.
However, I do not believe there are any large hatcheries selling true BSWs yet.

The reason those MWs being call BSWs back then... I best not indicate in this forum.
But it still causes a serious problem today....

I hope this made things clearer.

Best Wishes,

BT

Dr. Brian Tibbot, Ph.D.
Science Teacher, Northern Calif.
former Research Scientist USDA-ARS Madison WI and Albany CA

Black skin Chickens, American Blue Rabbits

Hello Brian!!!!! I didn't know you were on BYC, hope you are doing well and thanks again for all the information you gave me in the past about the BSW.

 

[tniron]

Where can I obtain true Beltsville White eggs or poults?

 

[sandspoultry]

Jerry Poole has the Alberston line and they are true BSW's. He sells on Ebay in season. I don't know of any others, after we disbursed our flock I haven't really kept up with who has what.

 

[ruralmom]

So..... other than getting a check swab from a bonified, authentic, true Beltsville, (to by DNA tested) we can all assuming the 'white'turkeys in our yards are are just some sort of 'white turkey'. I am disappointed but I am going to lean toward the source of my birds and hope I was not mislead since I have been using the Beltsville name to discribe my birds.