best brand of chicken feed?

[Michael Apple]

Seminole,
Since feed rations come in anywhere from 16-25%, don't you think it wouldn't be wise to supplement additional animal protein to a 20% ration of plant proteins since overabundance of protein in general can compromise health? Wouldn't it be more sensible to use a 16% ration, for instance with layers, and supplement no more than 4% animal protein? I think birds on range get quite a bit of extra animal protein in addition to what is supplied in a formulated feed too, depending on the ecological and climatic conditions.

 

[seminolewind]

Seminole,
Since feed rations come in anywhere from 16-25%, don't you think it wouldn't be wise to supplement additional animal protein to a 20% ration of plant proteins since overabundance of protein in general can compromise health? Wouldn't it be more sensible to use a 16% ration, for instance with layers, and supplement no more than 4% animal protein? I think birds on range get quite a bit of extra animal protein in addition to what is supplied in a formulated feed too, depending on the ecological and climatic conditions.

Yes I think it's wiser to use the 16% feed and add some other type of protein to it. Otherwise, you're just getting more of the same kind of protein when protein types should be varied. I'd like some of the protein to be anything other than soy.

 

[CrazyTalk]

It's funny to me that people are using recalls to justify not using a particular feed brand.

You know what one of the major differences is between large brands and small ones? The large brands are testing their foods, finding something wrong occasionally, and recalling. The small brands (like your local mill) just don't have QC departments, so they don't test. You don't have to recall if you don't test.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

When I was calling around about different brands of feed I only found one that had a policy of testing ingredients before they went into the feed, and it wasn't one of the big brands. There might be others that also test individual ingredients.

From what I remember about one of the Purina recalls, it wasn't testing that detected the bad batch of feed, it was inventory issues -- (I've edited the rest of this paragraph for accuracy, and included a link) potent ingredients disappeared way too slowly. "Inadequate vitamin and trace mineral levels can result in health problems, including mortality, in poultry. No customer complaints have been received to date." and "The problem was discovered during the investigation of an ingredient inventory discrepancy." So I'm not sure Purina is testing batches of feed before they leave the mill(s).

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm393549.htm

I think with a small, owner-operated mill there is a possibility of human error or deception, but at least the humans involved are highly invested in the reputation and success of the business ...

 

[Michael Apple]

It's funny to me that people are using recalls to justify not using a particular feed brand.

Well, when CAHFS at UC Davis performs examinations, for instance, and they find birds bearing the brunt of nutrient deficiency, it would sensible to examine nutrition levels in feed being supplied. A friend of mine's relative founded Micro-Tracers Inc., and they are one example of how nutrient levels are determined, among other things. If a company's product is on the FDA recall list, it is reasonable to conclude the health of animals can be compromised due to continued use of that product. A sensible person would then cease using that product. Nothing funny about that.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

From what I understand about the FDA is they currently rely more on inspection of procedures and audits (paper trails) than they do on actual testing of products.

I think a notable exception is the occasional testing of some of the poultry at poultry processing plants.

I think there is a lot of safety in following correct procedures, but I also think testing is important. I'd like to see more testing.

I believe for dog food, there are certain companies that are now self-testing for things like salmonella, which is an extra layer of protection. Presuming people are being honest.

The problem with audits is paper trails can be edited. Remember the big salmonella outbreak at a peanut processing plant and how the investigations of that uncovered lots of fraud? People died from that. Just so a company could turn a better profit.

I have something positive to say about the Purina feed I used to buy: the eggs and meat were delicious! I chose Purina after tasting some amazingly yummy eggs from someone's backyard chickens. I always got lots of compliments from picky egg customers that my eggs didn't have any funky flavors.

I have switched feeds to the custom mill, and now our feeds taste even better.

I did a ton of research into how to make great tasting eggs, and there are certain ingredients you have to watch out for because they can make eggs taste "off," and also other things that can help eggs taste better. The problem with off-tasting eggs isn't that the ingredient shouldn't be used at all, but that too much of it can make eggs taste funny ... think fish products, which is pretty obvious, but also things like flax (plant-based Omega-3s taste surprisingly like fish). Meanwhile, other things can help eggs taste better.

Here is a link to one of the science-based reports about funky-tasting eggs, and yummier eggs:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4093574/

To save you having to hunt for it, the report suggests it is prebiotics that make eggs taste yummier, and also improve the health of the bird, and the shell quality, and laying rates, etc., which is super cool IMO.

It is interesting to note that Purina is now adding pro- and prebiotics to their Layena recipe.

 

[CrazyTalk]

Michael, when a product is on the recall list, typically the problem has already been addressed, and they're recalling OLD bags. Believing that a product is safe simply because the brand hasn't been recalled lately (especially when we're talking small scale producers that don't record keep well, and don't have QC departments) is a bit naive in my opinion.

Recalls, by their very nature are reactive, and if there's a problem, your animals have already been exposed to it. Switching brands after the fact is a bit like closing the gate after your dog already got out.

 

[Michael Apple]

Recalls, by their very nature are reactive, and if there's a problem, your animals have already been exposed to it. Switching brands after the fact is a bit like closing the gate after your dog already got out.

A quality control problem with a company's brand of feed is an indication that it should not be used. Like the dog getting loose due to an open gate, it can be retrieved, just as a flock's health can be retrieved after bearing the brunt of a nutrient deficient diet.

 

[Michael Apple]

Connect the dots and follow the money. If anyone finds a trail of Chinese soy in livestock feeds sold in America, you have companies like this to thank: http://farmfutures.com/blogs-china-will-be-the-last-to-fail149bcrlf-690

I'm sure it is nothing to be concerned about though

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_15850.cfm

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Edited: I took out the links cuz I found some I like better. Absolutely! When I was calling around about sources for ingredients, and getting fuzzy answers, I also got a fair amount of hostility.

Avoiding bad imported soy is one of the reasons I'm avoiding soy as an ingredient in the feed. Other protein concentrates can also be questionable.

I think it is better to start with whole ingredients, but then it is hard to get the protein content up very high. Poults need a lot of protein at first, and the Livestock Conservancy says so do heritage breed chicks. It's a problem.